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Well, I'm glad I'm not alone. I've spent well over $200 at vets trying to figure this out.
This will be a long post, but this is serious.
One symptom of depluming mites that none of my birds have is fluid/crusting on skin around the base of the feathers. The fluid is what the mites feed on. Their skin is, if anything, very dry. The vet didn't find anything skin damage either except the (dry) inflamed areas. Several other birds started getting this as well, and Mary Lou, the one in the pictures was getting weak, spending most of her time sitting on the ground, walking slowly, etc, so I felt I needed to spend the money to find an answer. I even collected poop from three birds that had the symptoms (before Safeguard treatment) and took it immediately to the vet and had her do a fecal float and a SNAP Giardia test since Giardia is very common in the environment. Giardia are not passed at all times, which is why I took samples from three birds. The results were all negative, although she said, as I knew, that Giardia is difficult to find in tests. They had no suggestions, other then the usual, although the 2nd vet used a sticky slide on the bare areas and found nothing but bacteria which was probably from sitting in poop in their carrier while traveling to the vet.
Overcrowding: No, they live in a palace (150 ft2 for 12 birds NOT including nest boxes) with a huge, changing outdoor space)
Stress: It's been the same old, same old with the exception of one chicken leaving to be a mom to chicks kept far away from the older birds with separate feeders/waterers/care taken not to cross contaminate. Mom has never gotten this problem, so it can't be the chicks.
Internal parasites: They all had diarrhea so I treated with Safeguard as my research indicated that it's very difficult to overdose them, it's very safe for them, and research submitted for egg/meat withdrawal regulations in the European Union found that residue levels in eggs reached the levels deemed acceptable for other animal products after 7 days. It's not approved in the US, but there were 6 or 7 independent studies by researchers with these results in the application. In those studies they treated the birds for 3 days in a row and then tested residue levels each day presumable until they ran out of birds to kill and test. The diarrhea in my birds stopped immediately and egg production doubled back to normal levels by the end of three days. Fortunately our dogs love eggs! However, the diarrhea started up again in several of them, the ones losing feathers and egg production and shell quality plummeted again. So, more research convinced me to give them two or more treatments 10 days apart. I warned everyone there would be no eggs for at least a month, until I got the problem under control. I treated them with the Giardia dose this time (1.2 ml for 3 days, and then one dose 10 days later.) Diarrhea stopped, after the second dose and (fingers crossed), hasn't started again ten days later. Egg production and shell quality are totally back to normal. (Residues in eggs were no longer quantifiable after 8 days.)
Update: I looked up the link and found this document which states the recommended dose for all species is 1 mg/kg body weight for 5 days. In which case, I under medicated them as they are all about 5 lbs. Here are the links to the final ruling and the scientific research behind it: http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2013/01/WC500137339.pdf
External parasites: Like you, I checked and checked. I'm old and my eyes don't work well, so I got my daughter in there. We went in total darkness with a flashlight, leaned close up to the roost, and turned it one. She saw absolutely nothing. Tried another night and did the same things with the bodies of the birds. Nothing. Tried again in the nest boxes, again with other places in the coop. Nothing. I also concluded it might be some invisible mite, although I didn't find depluming mites in my research, so I really thank you for that lead. I found this article http://poultrykeeper.com/external-problems/the-chickenvet-talks-about-depluming-mites which suggests using Ivermectin, and some rabbit articles prescribing revolution for dogs in appropriate tiny doses between the shoulder blades to kill skin mites. I have no information on withdrawal times yet, but it sounds like a wonderful preventive for external parasites. After treating our birds the second time we thoroughly cleaned the coop. Hauled all bedding out, scrubbed the floors, roost nesting boxes, walls, and sprayed thoroughly with permethrin (which is supposed to be safe), especially every crack in the walls. I went in a sprayed again about three days later while they were out for the afternoon.
Egg binding: No, she was still laying then. Now her vent is quite dry and tight, so I think she has stopped due to malnutrition.
I tried giving them a high protein diet for about 4 weeks, but they were losing feathers just as fast, and several started losing feathers near the end of that time. I've also closely observed them a several times of day (and night) watching for feather eating, pulling by some other bird, etc and seen nothing.
End result as of yesterday: several of the birds are growing feathers back. Even the worst affected (the one in the pictures) has several little feathers growing at the base of her tail feathers and her shoulder areas are getting fluffier, her vent is clean with little feathers regrowing (these could just be from the lack of diarrhea irritation). None of them have diarrhea right now. I don't know if it was the Safeguard or the cleaning of the coop. I'm keeping their waterers sterilized as well.
We took Mary Lou out of the coop and confined her to a carrier for about 36 hours feeding her a wet mash with added probiotics and vitamins when she was so weak. She really perked up and was standing up in her cage getting restless at the end of that time. We put her back with the rest and she has been holding her own, mostly. A few days ago, I noticed that the irritated, red area on her breast and keel were getting very red. I took her out and put an antibiotic ointment on the areas. While doing so, I found that the main redness on her breast area was right over her crop. Her crop was nearly empty and had only a hard mass of little bumpy seeds or cracked corn. I gently massaged the lump/area for about five minutes and it seemed to soften a little bit. She seemed to really like this...relaxed and went into a "zone".(And she's not a bird who likes to be handled.) I did this same procedure again that evening...I was very concerned that her crop was still empty except for the hard lump. I massaged again. The next day, the lump was entirely gone, but her crop was also entirely empty. I've been feeding her a wet mash after applying the ointment for the last two days. She eats a very large amount, very hungrily. Last night her crop was full and soft. We'll see how she is when I check her this morning. The inflamed areas of her skin seem to be calming down.
So, that's where things stand now. I'm still thinking Giardia, but I will investigate depluming mites some more. I'll try to get back here to update on progress. I hope you find something in these experiences to help your sick girl. I don't like using chemicals on them either, but after seeing Mary Lou go downhill like that, it was clear they might all eventually die if I didn't do something to try to get things under control. I really hated seeing them suffering, and I can't bring myself to "cull" them unless it becomes clear they are in misery and there is no hope.) I started with the safest treatment I could find, and I hope I don't need to go into more dangerous treatments. I figure that scientific research has given us alternatives to treat serious illnesses that don't respond to less intensive methods. Just like I avoid antibiotics until it's clear I'm not going to get better, and I'm really getting debilitated (or in agony with UTIs), I'm so glad they exist to help us survive these difficult infections.
Good luck!
This will be a long post, but this is serious.
One symptom of depluming mites that none of my birds have is fluid/crusting on skin around the base of the feathers. The fluid is what the mites feed on. Their skin is, if anything, very dry. The vet didn't find anything skin damage either except the (dry) inflamed areas. Several other birds started getting this as well, and Mary Lou, the one in the pictures was getting weak, spending most of her time sitting on the ground, walking slowly, etc, so I felt I needed to spend the money to find an answer. I even collected poop from three birds that had the symptoms (before Safeguard treatment) and took it immediately to the vet and had her do a fecal float and a SNAP Giardia test since Giardia is very common in the environment. Giardia are not passed at all times, which is why I took samples from three birds. The results were all negative, although she said, as I knew, that Giardia is difficult to find in tests. They had no suggestions, other then the usual, although the 2nd vet used a sticky slide on the bare areas and found nothing but bacteria which was probably from sitting in poop in their carrier while traveling to the vet.
Overcrowding: No, they live in a palace (150 ft2 for 12 birds NOT including nest boxes) with a huge, changing outdoor space)
Stress: It's been the same old, same old with the exception of one chicken leaving to be a mom to chicks kept far away from the older birds with separate feeders/waterers/care taken not to cross contaminate. Mom has never gotten this problem, so it can't be the chicks.
Internal parasites: They all had diarrhea so I treated with Safeguard as my research indicated that it's very difficult to overdose them, it's very safe for them, and research submitted for egg/meat withdrawal regulations in the European Union found that residue levels in eggs reached the levels deemed acceptable for other animal products after 7 days. It's not approved in the US, but there were 6 or 7 independent studies by researchers with these results in the application. In those studies they treated the birds for 3 days in a row and then tested residue levels each day presumable until they ran out of birds to kill and test. The diarrhea in my birds stopped immediately and egg production doubled back to normal levels by the end of three days. Fortunately our dogs love eggs! However, the diarrhea started up again in several of them, the ones losing feathers and egg production and shell quality plummeted again. So, more research convinced me to give them two or more treatments 10 days apart. I warned everyone there would be no eggs for at least a month, until I got the problem under control. I treated them with the Giardia dose this time (1.2 ml for 3 days, and then one dose 10 days later.) Diarrhea stopped, after the second dose and (fingers crossed), hasn't started again ten days later. Egg production and shell quality are totally back to normal. (Residues in eggs were no longer quantifiable after 8 days.)
Update: I looked up the link and found this document which states the recommended dose for all species is 1 mg/kg body weight for 5 days. In which case, I under medicated them as they are all about 5 lbs. Here are the links to the final ruling and the scientific research behind it: http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2013/01/WC500137339.pdf
External parasites: Like you, I checked and checked. I'm old and my eyes don't work well, so I got my daughter in there. We went in total darkness with a flashlight, leaned close up to the roost, and turned it one. She saw absolutely nothing. Tried another night and did the same things with the bodies of the birds. Nothing. Tried again in the nest boxes, again with other places in the coop. Nothing. I also concluded it might be some invisible mite, although I didn't find depluming mites in my research, so I really thank you for that lead. I found this article http://poultrykeeper.com/external-problems/the-chickenvet-talks-about-depluming-mites which suggests using Ivermectin, and some rabbit articles prescribing revolution for dogs in appropriate tiny doses between the shoulder blades to kill skin mites. I have no information on withdrawal times yet, but it sounds like a wonderful preventive for external parasites. After treating our birds the second time we thoroughly cleaned the coop. Hauled all bedding out, scrubbed the floors, roost nesting boxes, walls, and sprayed thoroughly with permethrin (which is supposed to be safe), especially every crack in the walls. I went in a sprayed again about three days later while they were out for the afternoon.
Egg binding: No, she was still laying then. Now her vent is quite dry and tight, so I think she has stopped due to malnutrition.
I tried giving them a high protein diet for about 4 weeks, but they were losing feathers just as fast, and several started losing feathers near the end of that time. I've also closely observed them a several times of day (and night) watching for feather eating, pulling by some other bird, etc and seen nothing.
End result as of yesterday: several of the birds are growing feathers back. Even the worst affected (the one in the pictures) has several little feathers growing at the base of her tail feathers and her shoulder areas are getting fluffier, her vent is clean with little feathers regrowing (these could just be from the lack of diarrhea irritation). None of them have diarrhea right now. I don't know if it was the Safeguard or the cleaning of the coop. I'm keeping their waterers sterilized as well.
We took Mary Lou out of the coop and confined her to a carrier for about 36 hours feeding her a wet mash with added probiotics and vitamins when she was so weak. She really perked up and was standing up in her cage getting restless at the end of that time. We put her back with the rest and she has been holding her own, mostly. A few days ago, I noticed that the irritated, red area on her breast and keel were getting very red. I took her out and put an antibiotic ointment on the areas. While doing so, I found that the main redness on her breast area was right over her crop. Her crop was nearly empty and had only a hard mass of little bumpy seeds or cracked corn. I gently massaged the lump/area for about five minutes and it seemed to soften a little bit. She seemed to really like this...relaxed and went into a "zone".(And she's not a bird who likes to be handled.) I did this same procedure again that evening...I was very concerned that her crop was still empty except for the hard lump. I massaged again. The next day, the lump was entirely gone, but her crop was also entirely empty. I've been feeding her a wet mash after applying the ointment for the last two days. She eats a very large amount, very hungrily. Last night her crop was full and soft. We'll see how she is when I check her this morning. The inflamed areas of her skin seem to be calming down.
So, that's where things stand now. I'm still thinking Giardia, but I will investigate depluming mites some more. I'll try to get back here to update on progress. I hope you find something in these experiences to help your sick girl. I don't like using chemicals on them either, but after seeing Mary Lou go downhill like that, it was clear they might all eventually die if I didn't do something to try to get things under control. I really hated seeing them suffering, and I can't bring myself to "cull" them unless it becomes clear they are in misery and there is no hope.) I started with the safest treatment I could find, and I hope I don't need to go into more dangerous treatments. I figure that scientific research has given us alternatives to treat serious illnesses that don't respond to less intensive methods. Just like I avoid antibiotics until it's clear I'm not going to get better, and I'm really getting debilitated (or in agony with UTIs), I'm so glad they exist to help us survive these difficult infections.
Good luck!
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SOoo using my 1 ml medicine syringe, 0.1 ml would be 10 mg, so filling the syringe to that first tiny line on the syringe would be 1 mg fenbendazole.
