mixed symptoms - water belly? gapeworm or other worms? blocked crop?

[CrazyTownChick]

Hello BYC experts, thanks in advance for your help. Please read, sorry it's long.

One of our 12 hens, Carmella, has been sick for a week now. The problem was we had family in, staying at our house, from out of town since then and could only take limited measures. I spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with her, but there are so many things that it could be my head is spinning.
Our flock of 12 hens (started with 13) is 27 months old, mixed breeds from Tractor Supply. She is an Isa Brown (we have about 6 more) and has been healthy and not at the bottom or top of the pecking order. Toward the top maybe.
As far as I know she had been laying regularly. (our egg count has been down all summer, only about 5-8 eggs per day - we don't know why - we were used to 10-12 a day last year) She weighs just under 6 lbs, but has clearly lost weight since the onset of the illness. We live in East/Cental Kentucky near Lexington. Hot humid weather all summer, cooling now. About a month ago, had horrible flies.
Symptoms:

• Puffed up
• Standing still - hardly moving, yesterday she seemed to lose her balance, fell over, wings out
• Tail down, seems to want to lay down mostly
• Head down sometimes
• Bloated lower belly, feels just like a water balloon - will post pic
• Walks like a penguin, legs apart
• Heavy breathing, difficult, raspy phlegmy at first, sneezes sometimes
• Shaking head every 10-20 secs
• Comb light reddish, with purple tinge at tips, totally flopped over
• Eyes closing sometimes
• Butt very messy / poopy, stringy, whitish but no worms seen - will post pic
• Not eating or drinking much but must be eating a little (this perked up a little bit yesterday) see my comments below on what we've done to treat her so far)
• Not pooping much at all - watery, greenish yellowish - dont see worms in it
• Isolated from others in crate in run during day, in coop at night
• Bad smell, smells like pee pee, lower belly wet when I pick her up
• Hard time breathing

What they eat:
They have free choice chicken feed - Flock Raiser 20% mixed with Country Road 16% and free choice water available in the run all day long. Also oyster shell and grit in bowls available all day.

• Every day all our girls get 3 small plates (between the 12) of brunch. Nutritious treats and table scraps that they share - run back and forth between plates to get what they want. Typically, they get 3-5 items like scrambled eggs with cheese, their feed mixed with Egg Maker and water into a mash, assorted vegetables left over from dinner or canned peas or corn, 15 grain whole grain bread chunks, cottage cheese, canned fruit - no sugar added kind, wetted Special K protein flakes, quinoa, fresh lettuce, spinach or kale (kale picked from garden) sometimes whole grain spag noodles mixed with something yummy like cottage cheese or vanilla greek yogurt.
• She has been eating some of it, mostly pecking at it

Treatment so far based on symptoms bolded above:

• Since we wondered about egg binding, but could not feel an egg stuck, we started giving her calcium tablets am & pm. At first 1/2 in am and 1/2 in pm, then one full in am and pm. We've done that in the past with others and it seemed to help a lot
• Nutra drench 2 x a day, a full dropper each time
• Several droppers/syringes of plain water in her beak with each daily calcium and nutra drench treatment. She seemed to want the water. We give 3-4 water syringes am and pm

We have been doing the above things since last Thursday when we first noticed her sick. Also:

• Tuesday (9-13) we dewormed her with SafeGuard Goat de-wormer. Gave her .23 ml per pound, or about 1.50 ml for her <6 lbs. We have not dewormed any of our flock since we got them, 27 months ago as 2 week old chicks. After, I was holding a small water bowl up to her and she took like 12 sips on her own. Seemed thirsty. Will re-do in 10 days?
• Yesterday evening (9-15) we put her in warm bath with Dawn dish soap and carefully massaged off the poopy strings on her butt. Her vent looked pretty good, no obvious damage. Soaked for about 10-15 in. She didn't seem to mind at all.

We did not put any ointment or anti-fungal on her butt, wasn't sure if we should.

We are considering using the needle and syringe to try to drain the excess water out of her lower belly. Kind of nervous about doing that. Watched a good video here that showed how. Reason to do it would be to give her some relief and make breathing easier. If she's not going to make it and recover, want her to at least be comfortable.

We have on hand:

1. Banixx antibiotic spray
2. SWAT fly repellent
3. Neosporin
4. Vetericyn
5. Miconazole
6. VetRX first aid spray
7. Corid
8. Syringes and 16 gage needles
9. Nutradrench
10. Calcium tablets

Looking or advice from the most experienced chicken peeps please. Our heads are spinning already from trying to guess what is wrong.

No nearby vet, except one that I asked questions to, on phone, who was very helpful. Hate to ask for free advice again, but don't have big $$ to pay either.

Will post relevant pics right after this.

TODAY'S Condition: A little more alert and perky, pulling away. Still wants to just lay on her belly in the crate. Did a butt check -- a little poopy (even after yesterday's bath). Vent looked relatively clear. Belly still swollen like a water balloon. Is tossing her head every 5-10 seconds. Comb still flopped.

Thank you so much!
Cheri & Crazy Town Chicks

 

[CrazyTownChick]

Hello BYC experts, thanks in advance for your help. Please read, sorry it's long.

One of our 12 hens, Carmella, has been sick for a week now. The problem was we had family in, staying at our house, from out of town since then and could only take limited measures. I spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with her, but there are so many things that it could be my head is spinning.
Our flock of 12 hens (started with 13) is 27 months old, mixed breeds from Tractor Supply. She is an Isa Brown (we have about 6 more) and has been healthy and not at the bottom or top of the pecking order. Toward the top maybe.
As far as I know she had been laying regularly. (our egg count has been down all summer, only about 5-8 eggs per day - we don't know why - we were used to 10-12 a day last year) She weighs just under 6 lbs, but has clearly lost weight since the onset of the illness. We live in East/Cental Kentucky near Lexington. Hot humid weather all summer, cooling now. About a month ago, had horrible flies.
Symptoms:

• Puffed up
• Standing still - hardly moving, yesterday she seemed to lose her balance, fell over, wings out
• Tail down, seems to want to lay down mostly
• Head down sometimes
• Bloated lower belly, feels just like a water balloon - will post pic
• Walks like a penguin, legs apart
• Heavy breathing, difficult, raspy phlegmy at first, sneezes sometimes
• Shaking head every 10-20 secs
• Comb light reddish, with purple tinge at tips, totally flopped over
• Eyes closing sometimes
• Butt very messy / poopy, stringy, whitish but no worms seen - will post pic
• Not eating or drinking much but must be eating a little (this perked up a little bit yesterday) see my comments below on what we've done to treat her so far)
• Not pooping much at all - watery, greenish yellowish - dont see worms in it
• Isolated from others in crate in run during day, in coop at night
• Bad smell, smells like pee pee, lower belly wet when I pick her up
• Hard time breathing

What they eat:
They have free choice chicken feed - Flock Raiser 20% mixed with Country Road 16% and free choice water available in the run all day long. Also oyster shell and grit in bowls available all day.

• Every day all our girls get 3 small plates (between the 12) of brunch. Nutritious treats and table scraps that they share - run back and forth between plates to get what they want. Typically, they get 3-5 items like scrambled eggs with cheese, their feed mixed with Egg Maker and water into a mash, assorted vegetables left over from dinner or canned peas or corn, 15 grain whole grain bread chunks, cottage cheese, canned fruit - no sugar added kind, wetted Special K protein flakes, quinoa, fresh lettuce, spinach or kale (kale picked from garden) sometimes whole grain spag noodles mixed with something yummy like cottage cheese or vanilla greek yogurt.
• She has been eating some of it, mostly pecking at it

Treatment so far based on symptoms bolded above:

• Since we wondered about egg binding, but could not feel an egg stuck, we started giving her calcium tablets am & pm. At first 1/2 in am and 1/2 in pm, then one full in am and pm. We've done that in the past with others and it seemed to help a lot
• Nutra drench 2 x a day, a full dropper each time
• Several droppers/syringes of plain water in her beak with each daily calcium and nutra drench treatment. She seemed to want the water. We give 3-4 water syringes am and pm

We have been doing the above things since last Thursday when we first noticed her sick. Also:

• Tuesday (9-13) we dewormed her with SafeGuard Goat de-wormer. Gave her .23 ml per pound, or about 1.50 ml for her <6 lbs. We have not dewormed any of our flock since we got them, 27 months ago as 2 week old chicks. After, I was holding a small water bowl up to her and she took like 12 sips on her own. Seemed thirsty. Will re-do in 10 days?
• Yesterday evening (9-15) we put her in warm bath with Dawn dish soap and carefully massaged off the poopy strings on her butt. Her vent looked pretty good, no obvious damage. Soaked for about 10-15 in. She didn't seem to mind at all.

We did not put any ointment or anti-fungal on her butt, wasn't sure if we should.

We are considering using the needle and syringe to try to drain the excess water out of her lower belly. Kind of nervous about doing that. Watched a good video here that showed how. Reason to do it would be to give her some relief and make breathing easier. If she's not going to make it and recover, want her to at least be comfortable.

We have on hand:

1. Banixx antibiotic spray
2. SWAT fly repellent
3. Neosporin
4. Vetericyn
5. Miconazole
6. VetRX first aid spray
7. Corid
8. Syringes and 16 gage needles
9. Nutradrench
10. Calcium tablets

Looking or advice from the most experienced chicken peeps please. Our heads are spinning already from trying to guess what is wrong.

No nearby vet, except one that I asked questions to, on phone, who was very helpful. Hate to ask for free advice again, but don't have big $$ to pay either.

Will post relevant pics right after this.

TODAY'S Condition: A little more alert and perky, pulling away. Still wants to just lay on her belly in the crate. Did a butt check -- a little poopy (even after yesterday's bath). Vent looked relatively clear. Belly still swollen like a water balloon. Is tossing her head every 5-10 seconds. Comb still flopped.

Thank you so much!
Cheri & Crazy Town Chicks

Uploaded 8 pix. Not showing up.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Sounds like she's probably having reproductive problems.

Ascites is a symptom where fluid accumulates in the abdomen. In laying hens it's common to have Ascites accompany reproductive disorders and/or organ failure. Draining may help relieve some of the symptoms and make her more comfortable for a period of time but do keep in mind the underlying condition (root cause) is still there.

Once you drain the fluid, you may find that some of the other symptoms "resolve". Difficulty breathing and gurgling surely can accompany the symptom of Ascites since the hen is filled with fluid. Her crop may begin to empty better since inflammation and pressure on the internal organs has been reduced.

If a hen is not being picked on, can move to get to food/water then I leave them with their flock.

 

[CrazyTownChick]

Sounds like she's probably having reproductive problems.

Ascites is a symptom where fluid accumulates in the abdomen. In laying hens it's common to have Ascites accompany reproductive disorders and/or organ failure. Draining may help relieve some of the symptoms and make her more comfortable for a period of time but do keep in mind the underlying condition (root cause) is still there.

Once you drain the fluid, you may find that some of the other symptoms "resolve". Difficulty breathing and gurgling surely can accompany the symptom of Ascites since the hen is filled with fluid. Her crop may begin to empty better since inflammation and pressure on the internal organs has been reduced.

If a hen is not being picked on, can move to get to food/water then I leave them with their flock.

Thanks so much for the reply. It's what I feared. May be ascites (didn't know what that was until now). yes, penguin stance, waddle, and poor balance with water belly.
So we will drain the fluid from in front of and between the legs. It should be clear? We'll try to keep her as comfortable and happy as possible in her last days. Not being picked on at this point, so she can hang with the flock. Makes me so sad.
As with many chicken owners, they are our "girls," our pets. We got about 27 good months of egg laying from her. We have about 5 other hens just like her -- I hope they don't succumb to water belly and liver or reproductive issues. But maybe I should expect it? Ugh. **Correction: She's 27 months old but started laying at 16 weeks I think, so about 22 or so months of laying.
Also I think we need to do a better job of keeping poopy butts clean, just so we can see that area better. It's normal that we have 2 or 3 poopy butts sometimes. Yippee.
Thank you again for taking the time to read and reply!
Cheri

 

[CrazyTownChick]

Sounds like she's probably having reproductive problems.

Ascites is a symptom where fluid accumulates in the abdomen. In laying hens it's common to have Ascites accompany reproductive disorders and/or organ failure. Draining may help relieve some of the symptoms and make her more comfortable for a period of time but do keep in mind the underlying condition (root cause) is still there.

Once you drain the fluid, you may find that some of the other symptoms "resolve". Difficulty breathing and gurgling surely can accompany the symptom of Ascites since the hen is filled with fluid. Her crop may begin to empty better since inflammation and pressure on the internal organs has been reduced.

If a hen is not being picked on, can move to get to food/water then I leave them with their flock.

I should ask, should we continue to give her a little water by syringe in her beak?
What about Nutra drench?
Calcium pills are probably a waste since she won't be laying again?
What about any antifungal ointment Miconazole in her or on her? Is there a benefit? Goal is to make her comfortable but not waste resources.
Thanks!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Yes, I would certainly continue treating symptoms and offering supportive care until you feel she's just had enough and it's time to let her go.
If her crop is sour, then Miconazole is a good treatment, but you may find that once you drain the fluid, the crop will begin to empty, the gurgling will calm down and she won't have as difficult as time breathing and may not waddle quite so much. Depending on what's causing all her symptoms, it's possible she may rally for a good while.
Time will tell on that.

 

[CrazyTownChick]

Yes, I would certainly continue treating symptoms and offering supportive care until you feel she's just had enough and it's time to let her go.
If her crop is sour, then Miconazole is a good treatment, but you may find that once you drain the fluid, the crop will begin to empty, the gurgling will calm down and she won't have as difficult as time breathing and may not waddle quite so much. Depending on what's causing all her symptoms, it's possible she may rally for a good while.
Time will tell on that.

Thanks Again! Makes sense.
We did drain her last evening before her bed time and were surprised at how much fluid came out. Almost 6 oz of Darkish yellow liquid and it kept dripping out after we pulled the needle out. We let her sit on my lap with a towel for a while and then we let her walk around on the patio and grass and she was still dripping. She seemed to perk up quite a bit almost immediately and was pecking at the grass. she hadn’t shown interest in much of anything before that.
Kept her in the crate in the coop one last night with food & water. Nest pad pretty soaked from drainage. Offered her water from a bowl which she took. Anyway, we will continue to give her water by syringe and nutradrench once a day. Her crop is pretty empty and her comb is still flopped over. The duck wAddle is gone.
She went into the chicken yard with the others this morning but is keeping to herself, with a little grass pecking. I would call this a slight rally and better than she was for sure. Will continue to offer her food in a bowl if she doesn’t partake with others. At least she’ll be more comfortable since she wont be able to recover.
Now I know what to look at in the others if they become sick & treat them sooner.
Thanks again — this must be run of the mill & repetitive for you - but itmeant the world to me!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm glad she's doing a little better.

Hopefully day by day she will improve. They can rally for a good while sometimes. I've had hens with reproductive disorders live for months to over a year longer. A few never did really improve much and ended up declining in a short period of time.
You just never know what will happen.

 

[CrazyTownChick]

Isn’t that the truth… you never know!
Thanks agan!

 

[CrazyTownChick]

Update: Carmella did not make it. She died 9-22-22 after 2 weeks of daily treatment.

We had drained the fluid from the 'water balloon' below her vent, and continued to give her water, softened feed, Nutra Drench, and make her as comfortable as possible. She really wouldn't eat and wasted away to nothing. the last two days we kept her in a box on soft towels in our guest room. Her body was limp and not able to move. Legs and feet were cold. She was able to pick her head up sometimes and look around, but was clearly dying. She took only drops of water.

After a couple days of this, we had a friend come over and euthanize her with my husband (neither of us have done anything like this before). Very very sad day for us. She was a good, energetic chicken who layed eggs (we think) almost every day for almost 2 years. RIP Carmella.

We researched the heck out of it and did everything that was recommended by the pros but nothing worked. Our conclusion is that it was a fatal reproductive system disorder or disease (possibly egg yolk peritonitis EYP? or failing liver?) that could not be fixed. We buried her in the yard next to our other girl that passed without warning or signs in January. She's the second chicken in our original flock of 13, that turned two in June this year, to go.

Now we've got another one or two to tend to -- red swelling below their vents, lots of stringy poops, and some of the same symptoms -- partly dark limp comb, We're trying miconazole twice a day with the one RIR for possible sour crop (squishy and 1/2 full in the morning) and also bathing and trying to treat the vent gleet. Low appetite - picks up food and drops it, like she wants it but can't eat it. Anyway, we'll do the best we can and hope for the best. Thanks for your help and advice.