My rant

[NatJ]

I’m going to be getting chicks for the first time very soon. Curious as to what you use instead of pine shavings for the brooder flooring material. I’ve heard paper towels for the first week or so and then mostly pine shavings. Is there something that works better for you? Thanks!

Different people use different things.
Puppy pee pads seem to be popular.

My personal preference is a good thick layer of newspaper, with a single layer of paper towel over the top. The newspaper is to absorb any spilled water, and the paper towel is to provide good traction so the chicks are not slipping around on the newspaper (they probably don't like slipping, but the more important point is that it can also cause joint issues for them.)

After the first few days or a week, the chicks are much better at knowing what is good to eat, and they are much more coordinated in their motions as well.

For later bedding, I like any dry material that chicks can scratch around that I can put in a garden or compost pile later. I've used dry leaves, wood chips, hay or straw, pine shavings, dried grass clippings, dry pine needles, sawdust, actual dirt, and probably a lot more things that I've forgotten. I prefer things that I do not have to buy, so I have only used pine shavings once, even though I've raised chicks dozens of times.

Chicks WILL scratch their bedding around, get it in their feed and water, and make a dusty mess wherever they are. Brooding them outdoors means the mess is not in your house. After a few days, you can put the feeder and especially the waterer up on something to keep it a bit cleaner. You can raise it until the edge is about level with the chicks' backs, and they will still drink just fine. Or you can put on something larger, with enough space for the chicks to hop up and stand while they drink. The chicks get much better at jumping and flying over the first few weeks, and they also scratch bedding more vigorously, so you may need to adjust it every few days at some stages.

 

[Shadrach]

My point is that deciding how you're going to raise your chickens depends on the outcome you want.

It should be what's best for the chicken though.

 

[Fluffydad]

Different people use different things.
Puppy pee pads seem to be popular.

My personal preference is a good thick layer of newspaper, with a single layer of paper towel over the top. The newspaper is to absorb any spilled water, and the paper towel is to provide good traction so the chicks are not slipping around on the newspaper (they probably don't like slipping, but the more important point is that it can also cause joint issues for them.)

After the first few days or a week, the chicks are much better at knowing what is good to eat, and they are much more coordinated in their motions as well.

For later bedding, I like any dry material that chicks can scratch around that I can put in a garden or compost pile later. I've used dry leaves, wood chips, hay or straw, pine shavings, dried grass clippings, dry pine needles, sawdust, actual dirt, and probably a lot more things that I've forgotten. I prefer things that I do not have to buy, so I have only used pine shavings once, even though I've raised chicks dozens of times.

Chicks WILL scratch their bedding around, get it in their feed and water, and make a dusty mess wherever they are. Brooding them outdoors means the mess is not in your house. After a few days, you can put the feeder and especially the waterer up on something to keep it a bit cleaner. You can raise it until the edge is about level with the chicks' backs, and they will still drink just fine. Or you can put on something larger, with enough space for the chicks to hop up and stand while they drink. The chicks get much better at jumping and flying over the first few weeks, and they also scratch bedding more vigorously, so you may need to adjust it every few days at some stages.

Great advice! Thank you!

 

[Iluveggers]

I liken it to eating healthy. You can listen to 10 different expert nutritionists. Plant based, vegan, keto, whole food, Atkins, etc. Bottom line, do your research, read a lot, experiment & learn, and do what works best for your situation. Notice none of the experts say to eat a diet of Doritos and soda? No “expert” on here will tell you to put your chicks out to free range on day 1 with just a little supplement of scratch. Some may recommend different methods than others, and they may all work in different ways.

 

[Jester57]

Only going to add that the issue with the heat lamps is that they are fine 99% of the time, but when they are not the results can be catastrophic.

Oh God yes. That's why I only used mine as a supplemental, and it was very secured. But, in general, they scare the &@?!! out of me. It fries me (pun intended) though that at least one of the major hatcheries and a number of small ones will insist, on their website, that heating plates and pads are garbage and only the heat lamp will do.

Being as I am a relatively new chicken parent, I have no idea why they're so invested in the heat lamp, although I'll bet you there's quite a history. It makes me cringe when I see articles that promote heat lamp usage, citing the chicks burning themselves against hot surfaces (and if anyone has knowledge of that actually happening, I'd love to hear about it). Reducing heat incrementally every week comes from chicks not having enough space to self-regulate their temperatures by getting away from the heat lamp for awhile (and perhaps the extinction of the broody hen with a thermostat).

But heat lamps are cheap, so there's your final answer.

 

[NatJ]

It fries me (pun intended) though that at least one of the major hatcheries and a number of small ones will insist, on their website, that heating plates and pads are garbage and only the heat lamp will do.

The one I have mostly noticed is Cackle, and that's not what they say.

They say that a brooder plate does not put out enough heat to properly reheat shipped chicks that arrive cold. They say that a heat plate can be used later, after the chicks are warmed up and have recovered from the stress of shipping (2 weeks is their estimate for when that will be.)

https://www.cacklehatchery.com/guarantees-policies/
section title MAIL ORDER CHICKS REQUIRE HEAT BULB NOT HEAT PLATE

That is not at all the same as saying a heat plate is "garbage." It's pointing out that heat lamps and heat plates are different and that the differences matter. (You are also saying the two things are different, and that the differences matter, but you disagree with them about which one is best for certain situations.)

Being as I am a relatively new chicken parent, I have no idea why they're so invested in the heat lamp, although I'll bet you there's quite a history.

Why? Probably because they don't like hearing from customers with DEAD chicks.
I've read a few stories on this forum of newly-shipped chicks that were doing poorly and dying with a heat plate, but fine when a heat lamp was used also (or instead).

I believe @JacinLarkwell was one of the people with that experience.

Cackle does sell brooder plates too, although their description includes a bold-text note that they only recommend them for chicks over 2 weeks of age.

Just to be clear:
There are also plenty of people reporting that they raised shipped chicks with a brooder plate from the very first day, and the chicks did fine. Maybe it only matters for chicks that had an especially long or chilly trip from the hatchery. The other temperature in the brooder may make a difference too. The brooder plates often say to use in temperatures above 50 degrees, but maybe a higher-yet room temperature can make the difference for some chicks, so different climates or people raising chicks in the house vs. outdoors in a coop may be part of why it works for some people and not for others.

Reducing heat incrementally every week comes from chicks not having enough space to self-regulate their temperatures by getting away from the heat lamp for awhile (and perhaps the extinction of the broody hen with a thermostat).

I definitely agree with that.

My personal preference is to use a heat lamp in a LARGE brooder (4+ feet in at least one direction.) The heat lamp goes in one end or one corner, and the other end is much cooler. With that setup, there is no need to incrementally reduce the heat, because the chicks use the heat lamp just like they would a heat plate or a broody hen: warm up underneath, go play in the cold, come back to nap in the warmth, go play in the cold again, etc. As they get older, they spend more time in the cool area and less in the hot area. I don't have to reduce the heat at all, just take the lamp out when the chicks are no longer spending time in the warmth. I've read of a number of other people who also have good results using heat lamps this way.

But in a small brooder, especially inside a heated house, I 100% agree that a heat lamp is a bad idea because it puts out way too much heat for that situation.

But heat lamps are cheap, so there's your final answer.

When a hatchery sells expensive brooder plates and cheap heat lamps, I would expect them to encourage peoply buying the more expensive option (brooder plates)

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I believe @JacinLarkwell was one of the people with that experience.

I was. I always use a lamp for at least the first week and often until I start to wean the chicks off of heat completely. I have the plate set up as well after day 2, but let's face it, they're babies, and babies aren't always the smartest thing. It's easier for them to stay warm with a bulb they can sleep under than a plate they have to be touching, especially when they're chilled and weak after 2-3 days in the mail.

Plus while the red light likely messes with a sleep cycle, I would assume that the chicks would rather be warm enough to wake up from poor sleep than cold enough that they don't wake up again

 

[Jester57]

The one I have mostly noticed is Cackle, and that's not what they say.

They say that a brooder plate does not put out enough heat to properly reheat shipped chicks that arrive cold. They say that a heat plate can be used later, after the chicks are warmed up and have recovered from the stress of shipping (2 weeks is their estimate for when that will be.)

https://www.cacklehatchery.com/guarantees-policies/
section title MAIL ORDER CHICKS REQUIRE HEAT BULB NOT HEAT PLATE

That is not at all the same as saying a heat plate is "garbage." It's pointing out that heat lamps and heat plates are different and that the differences matter. (You are also saying the two things are different, and that the differences matter, but you disagree with them about which one is best for certain situations.)


Why? Probably because they don't like hearing from customers with DEAD chicks.
I've read a few stories on this forum of newly-shipped chicks that were doing poorly and dying with a heat plate, but fine when a heat lamp was used also (or instead).

I believe @JacinLarkwell was one of the people with that experience.

Cackle does sell brooder plates too, although their description includes a bold-text note that they only recommend them for chicks over 2 weeks of age.

Just to be clear:
There are also plenty of people reporting that they raised shipped chicks with a brooder plate from the very first day, and the chicks did fine. Maybe it only matters for chicks that had an especially long or chilly trip from the hatchery. The other temperature in the brooder may make a difference too. The brooder plates often say to use in temperatures above 50 degrees, but maybe a higher-yet room temperature can make the difference for some chicks, so different climates or people raising chicks in the house vs. outdoors in a coop may be part of why it works for some people and not for others.



I definitely agree with that.

My personal preference is to use a heat lamp in a LARGE brooder (4+ feet in at least one direction.) The heat lamp goes in one end or one corner, and the other end is much cooler. With that setup, there is no need to incrementally reduce the heat, because the chicks use the heat lamp just like they would a heat plate or a broody hen: warm up underneath, go play in the cold, come back to nap in the warmth, go play in the cold again, etc. As they get older, they spend more time in the cool area and less in the hot area. I don't have to reduce the heat at all, just take the lamp out when the chicks are no longer spending time in the warmth. I've read of a number of other people who also have good results using heat lamps this way.

But in a small brooder, especially inside a heated house, I 100% agree that a heat lamp is a bad idea because it puts out way too much heat for that situation.


When a hatchery sells expensive brooder plates and cheap heat lamps, I would expect them to encourage peoply buying the more expensive option (brooder plates)

I stand corrected. I misread both of the ones (including Cackle) I was thinking of and you’re absolutely right. Rage receding, rant on that subject ended.

I’m pretty sure I did read something somewhere trashing brooder plates and apparently conflated it with the hatchery instructions.

Never do anything from memory.

 

[NatJ]

Never do anything from memory.

Yes, I've had that problem too many times myself! It's only been a few days since the last time I looked something up and found it did not match my memory of it