Need advice on how to get a chip off my shoulder

[zzGypsy]

zzgypsy, you are very wise. You may be speaking to the OP, but you speak to many of us. Not just on this post, but on many I've read. We all want our loved ones to "know" what we need but that's unrealistic. Do we know what our loved ones need? Probably not. We need to do - and love - the best we can. And if we really need something, we need to tell our loved ones. They can't read our minds ,and we shouldn't expect them to.

thank you, it's been hard-earned. I'm the proud owner of a hard head with a *lot* of lumps on it...
I had lots of ideas about the magic of love... probably most folks do. turns out, now that I have a more practical view of love and life and relationships, things work a lot better than they did when I believed "love is enough". love, itself, is not enough. it takes work, generosity, skills, patience, and the willingness to let go of things that don't matter much, but still occupy our attention.

the interesting thing is, now that I rely on magic less, and skills, effort and attention more, I find the miracle of my husband loving me as he does touches me more than when I thought it was all supposed to just magically work because you were in love.

 

[Beekissed]

zzGypsy, you are truly wise and insightful!! I agree with you 100%!

And this?

But I'll sit with an acquaintance who is dying of cancer and in horrendous pain so his wife can have a breather. two or three nights a week, week after week. I don't send Christmas cards. But you can call me at 3am because your boyfriend's hit you and I'll be there at 3:15am with a shotgun to defend you while you pack and a truck to move your stuff. I won't remember when you changed jobs, or what your favorite color is. but if you need someone to sit with you while you mourn the sudden loss of your mother, I'll be there and hold you while you cry, all night if needed. if it were me, in your family, I might not be there in the hospital with the card and the undivided attention, but I'd be the one showing up to feed your animals in the snow because your hip won't let you do it yet.

That's me to a "T"....that is what kind of friend I am also. If you want the simple fluff of remembering your birthday, I'm not it. If you want someone who will travel across all the land to help you in hard times, that's me.

 

[Hummelhill]

zzGypsy, I have to wholeheartedly agree... you have a rare sort of wisdom, and are very skilled at putting it into words. Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

[yomama]

Wow, hadn't checked on this post in a few days. Alot has been said.

ZZ Gypsy: I understand alot of what you said. And although I feel like the way you interpreted my situation was that I wanted to be treated like royalty, i know you were just telling me how you saw it. I do know that I have somewhat unrealistic expectations of people sometimes. I guess I feel like if it is something I would do for them, why don't they do it for me? I know it may sound superficial to many, but I don't feel like visiting someone, giving someone a card, or even texting them, while enduring their second major surgery in 6 months is "birthday party stuff, or wanting to be the center of attention". Especially when that is the nature of at least some of the people involved. That's the thing. I expected nothing from some, but some of the people involved are the kind that do send cards, visit people in the hospital, and so on. My husband tells me that I'm just a person that remembers birthdays, and is always thinking of others, and alot of people just aren't that way. I am also the kind of person that would be with you at the drop of the hat, if I were needed. I don't think someone has to be either or. I do agree that I shouldn't expect someone to know what I expect of them, without telling them what I need. That is something that I've tried to work on for a long time, especially with my husband. Not sure I really have the energy to dive into this with family, really, so I think I will not expect anything from them, therefore not be disappointed. I feel like my first post came off as if I wanted people to throw me a party, but that isn't it. I just wanted people to step up one way or another. I didn't expect everyone to give be cards, balloons, cake, and ice cream. I just wanted them to show that they were actually aware that I was in the hospital. Seriously, a text would of been nice. Trust me, in daily life, I don't get doted on, don't get parties, and I'm definitely not the center of attention. Just not the way real life is for me, and it is for many. I'm not a princess, despite what some may think. Just having a hard time with family. In response to going back and rewriting my post replacing all the "didn'ts" to "dids", I can say it would be a really short post, lol! However, it does help put things into prospective, and shows me what I do have to appreciate.

I really do appreciate everyones input. I've been thinking alot about my situation, and I am just going to let bye-gones be bye-gones. I'm just going to treat people the way I would want to be treated, and as the boyscout saying goes "expect the best and prepare for the worst". It really is up to me to not let others' actions rule over my happiness. Just need to remind myself of this from time to time.

 

[zzGypsy]

hey there,
first off, something I should have said in the first post - way big kudos for being willing to even SAY "I have a chip" and then being willing to work on it. that takes some hoohoos.

Quote:
Actually the "birthday party" observation came only after I started to make a list of what things you commented on liking and wanting... I wrote out the list, and then thought... huh... that sounds like all the things one would expect at a birthday party...

it's sometimes interesting to note, in our own behavior, that even though we think it's one thing, when you take an objective look, it really matches with another. which is why I put the party reference in there, even though you never put it in that context yourself. I'm sure the birthday party idea is not something you'd have asked for, or considered, but it still seems like a pretty good fit to me, based on your description. and as I said, it's not a criticism that you would want those things, just a thing to observe.

Quote: and therein lies the trap. the answer to "why don't they" is because you are you and they are not. they are them.

it's a lovely thing when people are perceptive enough to notice how we treat them, and understand that we'd like to have them treat us that way in return. however, mostly folks don't. they treat us, not how we'd like to be treated, but how they themselves would like to be treated. so they are very likely in *precisely* the same situation as you... wishing you'd treat them the way *they'd* like, not the way *you'd* like. of course I don't mean the ones who are just takers, but the ones who are capable of giving.
unfortunatly (or maybe fortunately) the world is not made up of folks just like ourselves. instead it requires we adapt to other types of people.

one of the hard lessons in my life has been that reality is rather immutible... people are what they are, no matter how much I apply myself to changing them, no matter how determined I am that they'd be better off if they just did things my way.

things got a lot easier when I recognized, and learned to deal with, the fact that I can't have everything my way. people are what they are. they have the potential to change, but most folks never really do. I have to take them on their terms, and either that's something I can live with, or something I can't. it's not something I can make them change.
Quote: it may or may not be superficial... clearly it's not superficial to you when you do it. just be careful about thinking it's the same to them as it is to you... the meaning you attribute to it may not be the meaning *they* attribute to it.

Quote: see, now here's where it gets a little tricky... I'm going to suggest that it's actually this:

but some of the people involved are the kind that SOMETIMES send cards, and SOMETIMES visit people in the hospital

because do they really, *always* do so? our brains are clever places, and we need to look at what is stated, but also what is not, and is nonetheless assumed.

there are two possible interpretations here:
1) these are people who ALWAYS do this, and they made an exception in your case, deliberately declined to do it when you were in the hospital.
or
2) these are people who SOMETIMES do this, and sometimes don't.

if you choose door number one, you will feel slighted, angry, hurt.
if you choose door number two, you can consider that perhaps it's not as personal a snub as it seemed. perhaps there are other things that influence their decisions, or made demands on their time and attention, and they might not have anything to do with you.

my good shrink would ask this:
Is it reasonable to believe that they ALWAYS do this, and therefore that they DELIBERATELY snubbed you? or is it more reasonable to believe that this is something that they sometimes do, and sometimes don't do?

and he would ask:
does believing that make your life better? does it make you happier? does it improve your relationships?

he would say:
....and how's that workin' for you?

we get to choose what we believe, what spin and interpretation we put on things. and what we belive will determine a great deal of how we feel.

Quote: I agree, people don't have to be either or. but, nonetheless, some are. sure, they could be different. but they aren't. they are what they are.

I happen to be either or. you are not. we are different.

I had a close friend who was always doing things for me. bringing me fresh made cookies. clipping an article she knew I'd be interested in. bringing a bag of treats for after a gig when she knew I'd have a long drive home. she was relentlessly thoughtful, helpful, and caring. I use the term relentless on purpose, because periodically she'd be mad at me because I didn't do the same for her. she'd be upset, sulk, cry, complain that she did all these things for me and I never did them for her. (although, in fact, "never" was incorrect.) every time, we'd have the same conversation... remember who you're talking to here... I don't make cookies and pack snacks. but I am the one who helped you move. twice. and who helped you deal with a legal situation at work. and who moved you out of the beater boyfriend's house while he was at work. we take care of each other, just in different ways.

see, she expected that if she treated me like that... cookies, treats, thoughtfully clipped articles... I'd do *precisely* the same for her. and that if I didn't, I was mean. selfish. uncaring about her feelings and needs. she felt I *SHOULD* do those things for her, because she did them for me. she *could* have befriended someone who was just like she was... but she didn't. she befriended *me* and I am like *I* am. not like *she* is. she chose this friendship, then wanted me to become totally different.

that's not something that is destined to ever succeed. dissapointment will surely ensue.

Quote: be a little careful there... expecting *nothing* in lieu of communicating what you want will generally lead to resentment and anger. I know sometimes it seems like a ton of work, and not much hope of success, but giving up does not stand in well for communication.

Quote: it did sound that way a bit... mostly it sounded as if you wanted to be paid attention to, and felt that you were not, and that people didn't care. and that your scope for expecting it (extending to people like sibling's spouses) is fairly broad. but families are different... in mine, siblings *might* call, but their spouses surely wouldn't. some families are closer than others.

still, you have a fairly strong *want* applied to their behavior.

to quote my good shrink one more time: "it's good to want things."
doesn't mean we'll get them. and the expectation and demands made on others are something to be thoughtfully considered. and how much we make of it, if we don't get them, is up to us.

Quote: true for many of us. we just have to figure out how to not dig ourselves deeper into the problem, how to do something productive instead.

Quote:
yeah, that's an exercise I reeeealy hated the first time my good shrink had me do it....
Quote:

 

[yomama]

hey there,
first off, something I should have said in the first post - way big kudos for being willing to even SAY "I have a chip" and then being willing to work on it. that takes some hoohoos.

Quote:

Actually the "birthday party" observation came only after I started to make a list of what things you commented on liking and wanting... I wrote out the list, and then thought... huh... that sounds like all the things one would expect at a birthday party...

it's sometimes interesting to note, in our own behavior, that even though we think it's one thing, when you take an objective look, it really matches with another. which is why I put the party reference in there, even though you never put it in that context yourself. I'm sure the birthday party idea is not something you'd have asked for, or considered, but it still seems like a pretty good fit to me, based on your description. and as I said, it's not a criticism that you would want those things, just a thing to observe.

Quote:
I do know that I have somewhat unrealistic expectations of people sometimes. I guess I feel like if it is something I would do for them, why don't they do it for me?

and therein lies the trap. the answer to "why don't they" is because you are you and they are not. they are them.

it's a lovely thing when people are perceptive enough to notice how we treat them, and understand that we'd like to have them treat us that way in return. however, mostly folks don't. they treat us, not how we'd like to be treated, but how they themselves would like to be treated. so they are very likely in *precisely* the same situation as you... wishing you'd treat them the way *they'd* like, not the way *you'd* like. of course I don't mean the ones who are just takers, but the ones who are capable of giving.
unfortunatly (or maybe fortunately) the world is not made up of folks just like ourselves. instead it requires we adapt to other types of people.

one of the hard lessons in my life has been that reality is rather immutible... people are what they are, no matter how much I apply myself to changing them, no matter how determined I am that they'd be better off if they just did things my way.

things got a lot easier when I recognized, and learned to deal with, the fact that I can't have everything my way. people are what they are. they have the potential to change, but most folks never really do. I have to take them on their terms, and either that's something I can live with, or something I can't. it's not something I can make them change.
Quote: it may or may not be superficial... clearly it's not superficial to you when you do it. just be careful about thinking it's the same to them as it is to you... the meaning you attribute to it may not be the meaning *they* attribute to it.

Quote: see, now here's where it gets a little tricky... I'm going to suggest that it's actually this:

but some of the people involved are the kind that SOMETIMES send cards, and SOMETIMES visit people in the hospital

because do they really, *always* do so? our brains are clever places, and we need to look at what is stated, but also what is not, and is nonetheless assumed.

there are two possible interpretations here:
1) these are people who ALWAYS do this, and they made an exception in your case, deliberately declined to do it when you were in the hospital.
or
2) these are people who SOMETIMES do this, and sometimes don't.

if you choose door number one, you will feel slighted, angry, hurt.
if you choose door number two, you can consider that perhaps it's not as personal a snub as it seemed. perhaps there are other things that influence their decisions, or made demands on their time and attention, and they might not have anything to do with you.

my good shrink would ask this:
Is it reasonable to believe that they ALWAYS do this, and therefore that they DELIBERATELY snubbed you? or is it more reasonable to believe that this is something that they sometimes do, and sometimes don't do?

and he would ask:
does believing that make your life better? does it make you happier? does it improve your relationships?

he would say:
....and how's that workin' for you?

we get to choose what we believe, what spin and interpretation we put on things. and what we belive will determine a great deal of how we feel.

Quote: I agree, people don't have to be either or. but, nonetheless, some are. sure, they could be different. but they aren't. they are what they are.

I happen to be either or. you are not. we are different.

I had a close friend who was always doing things for me. bringing me fresh made cookies. clipping an article she knew I'd be interested in. bringing a bag of treats for after a gig when she knew I'd have a long drive home. she was relentlessly thoughtful, helpful, and caring. I use the term relentless on purpose, because periodically she'd be mad at me because I didn't do the same for her. she'd be upset, sulk, cry, complain that she did all these things for me and I never did them for her. (although, in fact, "never" was incorrect.) every time, we'd have the same conversation... remember who you're talking to here... I don't make cookies and pack snacks. but I am the one who helped you move. twice. and who helped you deal with a legal situation at work. and who moved you out of the beater boyfriend's house while he was at work. we take care of each other, just in different ways.

see, she expected that if she treated me like that... cookies, treats, thoughtfully clipped articles... I'd do *precisely* the same for her. and that if I didn't, I was mean. selfish. uncaring about her feelings and needs. she felt I *SHOULD* do those things for her, because she did them for me. she *could* have befriended someone who was just like she was... but she didn't. she befriended *me* and I am like *I* am. not like *she* is. she chose this friendship, then wanted me to become totally different.

that's not something that is destined to ever succeed. dissapointment will surely ensue.

Quote: be a little careful there... expecting *nothing* in lieu of communicating what you want will generally lead to resentment and anger. I know sometimes it seems like a ton of work, and not much hope of success, but giving up does not stand in well for communication.

Quote: it did sound that way a bit... mostly it sounded as if you wanted to be paid attention to, and felt that you were not, and that people didn't care. and that your scope for expecting it (extending to people like sibling's spouses) is fairly broad. but families are different... in mine, siblings *might* call, but their spouses surely wouldn't. some families are closer than others.

still, you have a fairly strong *want* applied to their behavior.

to quote my good shrink one more time: "it's good to want things."
doesn't mean we'll get them. and the expectation and demands made on others are something to be thoughtfully considered. and how much we make of it, if we don't get them, is up to us.

Quote: true for many of us. we just have to figure out how to not dig ourselves deeper into the problem, how to do something productive instead.

Quote:
yeah, that's an exercise I reeeealy hated the first time my good shrink had me do it....
Quote:

Dang, you really should start charging for your responses, lol! Very good advice. And deep down, I know that what you say is very true, all of it. (No matter how much I don't want to accept some of it.) I was actually chuckling while I was reading it, because it is exactly what my therapist would of said to me

, and what I've know deep down as the truth. I've been kind of stuck for a very long time in my life, and I find that I'm expecting others to make me feel special, when in fact, it is up to me. It's funny how one can know things are certain way, but one still feels the need to argue their side. Thanks so much for being constructive in your criticism, and not hurtful or sarcastic. I've been in counseling most of my adult life, so your responses are very familiar and very clear to me. Although I truly was looking for some advice as how to overcome this situation, I think maybe I was looking for validation too.
Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Beekissed]

I'm glad Gypsy mentioned takers awhile back in the thread, because I believe them to be the exception to this type of thinking/feeling. I think we all have some of those in our lives and it sounds much like the OPs family at first~those people who are never there for you though you are always there for them. Truly never...not just sometimes they are and sometimes not. I've weeded those friends from my life after many years of always being the giver.

I was going along complacently accepting my role as the friend that always visits, always comforts, always calls for many years until I hit a particularly rough patch in my life and didn't get a chance to coddle these friends along as per usual. The thing I found out was they were so used to taking my caring for granted that they actually got a little tiffed that I hadn't called lately or visited. The wording went something like this, "You never come over any more! We never hear from you, why haven't you called us?" All in a very hurt and offended tone of voice, as if to say that I had abandoned them to the world to pursue my own life....how dare I?

The truth of the matter is that I had been working on friendships for several years all by myself and those words really awakened me. I didn't expect them to ask about my life and troubles because they never had. I didn't expect them to call and see why I hadn't called because they never called or visited my house for over 12 years, though they traveled right past the door to visit family. I think the part that shook me most was that they had the nerve to act like I wasn't a good friend because I hadn't called, visited or gave my usual selfless love to their lives and pursuits.

I actually laughed when they asked these questions...and then I realized that I'd been beating a dead pony for many years and had grown so used to whacking that poor thing that I thought it was normal. When I hung up the phone the light was still shining and I realized that I had devoted a lot of my life to my old high school friends and had given a lot of my time, which could have been spent on family, to these people who could only take.

I didn't regret those years because I was merely being who I am...someone capable of loving when there is no love in return. I'm not ashamed of that and I rather think that is one of my finer qualities. But I did learn to prioritize my life and relationships after that and also learned to spot a taker a little quicker as I met other potential friends and boyfriends.

I saw these two gals years later in the mall and they were, as usual, very happy to see me. They said we should "do lunch" which I know now means I'd like to but you aren't a priority in MY life so it is probable that we never will. I smiled and said, "Yes, we should! I'd love that!" and knowing all the while that it would never happen. They also complained that they miss me and that I never call and that they just don't have any friends anymore which makes them so very lonely. I wasn't even tempted to bite on that one....too easy!

Sometimes, those feelings you have niggling at the back of your mind that tells you that you DO love someone more than they love you and you DO show it more, are valid~ and then one just has to choose what they will do about it. Is it satisfying? If so, then no prob. Is it taking time away from others who do reciprocate your type of love? If so, time to cut that sucker fish loose and fish where you can catch something you can take home. Concentrate your particular brand of love on folks who really need and want it and leave the takers to their own devices.

 

[zzGypsy]

I'm glad Gypsy mentioned takers awhile back in the thread, because I believe them to be the exception to this type of thinking/feeling. I think we all have some of those in our lives and it sounds much like the OPs family at first~those people who are never there for you though you are always there for them. Truly never...not just sometimes they are and sometimes not. I've weeded those friends from my life after many years of always being the giver.

I was going along complacently accepting my role as the friend that always visits, always comforts, always calls for many years until I hit a particularly rough patch in my life and didn't get a chance to coddle these friends along as per usual. The thing I found out was they were so used to taking my caring for granted that they actually got a little tiffed that I hadn't called lately or visited. The wording went something like this, "You never come over any more! We never hear from you, why haven't you called us?" All in a very hurt and offended tone of voice, as if to say that I had abandoned them to the world to pursue my own life....how dare I?

The truth of the matter is that I had been working on friendships for several years all by myself and those words really awakened me. I didn't expect them to ask about my life and troubles because they never had. I didn't expect them to call and see why I hadn't called because they never called or visited my house for over 12 years, though they traveled right past the door to visit family. I think the part that shook me most was that they had the nerve to act like I wasn't a good friend because I hadn't called, visited or gave my usual selfless love to their lives and pursuits.

I actually laughed when they asked these questions...and then I realized that I'd been beating a dead pony for many years and had grown so used to whacking that poor thing that I thought it was normal. When I hung up the phone the light was still shining and I realized that I had devoted a lot of my life to my old high school friends and had given a lot of my time, which could have been spent on family, to these people who could only take.

I didn't regret those years because I was merely being who I am...someone capable of loving when there is no love in return. I'm not ashamed of that and I rather think that is one of my finer qualities. But I did learn to prioritize my life and relationships after that and also learned to spot a taker a little quicker as I met other potential friends and boyfriends.

I saw these two gals years later in the mall and they were, as usual, very happy to see me. They said we should "do lunch" which I know now means I'd like to but you aren't a priority in MY life so it is probable that we never will. I smiled and said, "Yes, we should! I'd love that!" and knowing all the while that it would never happen. They also complained that they miss me and that I never call and that they just don't have any friends anymore which makes them so very lonely. I wasn't even tempted to bite on that one....too easy!

Sometimes, those feelings you have niggling at the back of your mind that tells you that you DO love someone more than they love you and you DO show it more, are valid~ and then one just has to choose what they will do about it. Is it satisfying? If so, then no prob. Is it taking time away from others who do reciprocate your type of love? If so, time to cut that sucker fish loose and fish where you can catch something you can take home. Concentrate your particular brand of love on folks who really need and want it and leave the takers to their own devices.

all of it true.
and people *do* hate it when they've been feeding off you and all of a sudden you stop. it usually goes like this:

good for you on getting it, and making a clean break and better choices. had to do that too.

 

[zzGypsy]

Dang, you really should start charging for your responses, lol! Very good advice. And deep down, I know that what you say is very true, all of it. (No matter how much I don't want to accept some of it.) I was actually chuckling while I was reading it, because it is exactly what my therapist would of said to me

, and what I've know deep down as the truth. I've been kind of stuck for a very long time in my life, and I find that I'm expecting others to make me feel special, when in fact, it is up to me. It's funny how one can know things are certain way, but one still feels the need to argue their side. Thanks so much for being constructive in your criticism, and not hurtful or sarcastic. I've been in counseling most of my adult life, so your responses are very familiar and very clear to me. Although I truly was looking for some advice as how to overcome this situation, I think maybe I was looking for validation too.
Thanks again, everyone!

you're welcome.

yeah, there's that moment in my good shrink's office where I think "DANG it, Busted!" ... the moment where I know he's right and I'm just not ready to own it yet. I *hate* that moment. often leaves me lobbying for my limitations and bad behavior.

but usually once I'm busted, I can get on about working out a better plan.

my personal favorite, and most dangerous, emotion is righeous indignation. especially powerful if I'm feeling put upon at the same time. guaranteed to make me see all the ills in my life as perpertrated by the hand of others. and empowering me to punish them until they straighten up and fly right.

gets me in trouble every time. now when I get that feeling I start hunting around for where I'm off track, because I'm about to derail myself in a truly special way if I don't get a handle on it quick!

so here's some validation: your feelings are your feelings, and they're real.
and then there's the bigger picture you already know: the world is not as you'd like it to be, it is as it is... and in *this* world, there are better, more productive ways to see and do things, and that will make it easier, and you and the people around you happier.

er... wait... did you hear that? what was that sound?
I'm thinking it was the sound of a chip hitting the floor...

nice!

 

[The Lazy L]

Quote:
It's like when a wife gets all emotional. Husbands natural instinct is so retreat to garage/work/barn. All the husband has to do is keep their month shut and give the wife a hug.

Sounds like some of your family members don't know how to handle a crisis. They don't know if mentioning your surgery will remind you of the resulting pain, if they joke would that be considered inappropriate, so they do nothing. All they would have to do is keep their mouth shut and give you a hug.

Your brother is a jerk.

Your second time around. Husband have a bad day at work? Pick up the kids, feed, listen to their wants (remember men can do only one thing at a time without getting stressed) finds the hospital room while trying to keep the kids under control. In a Male's mind he's doing good! But he forgot the card

So all his trying to please you just went down the drain.

Also some people have very very very short attention Span. They can't concentrate pass the "now" moment.

And some people think the world revolves around them and any thing that doesn't effect them directly is of no matter.



A good book that explains why we may not feel "loved": http://www.5lovelanguages.com/learn-the-languages/the-five-love-languages/