not all birds are created equal

[pbjmaker]

and we have been bad mouthed for saying we cull hatchlings with deformities.....one went as far as saying "you wouldnt kill a child with deformities" you are right, but these are livestock not children.

I have culled many chicks for having deformities, but I have friends who do take care of those deformed birds and they are well loved and well cared for. They also don't ever breed from them. There are many things to be learned from an animal that has a strong will to live. These are compassionate people. Please don't hate them for having a passion for all life. It is not for me most of the time but it is for some a fulfilling way of living.I would rather have someone who feels that all lives are worth saving on my side than one who cares for no life but their own.

BTW as I typed this I discovered my 4 dogs are culling all of my daughter's stuffed animals. I now have a blind bear and a three legged - one earred moose.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

I am just curious if finding the standard is possible without actually purchasing the book from the APA? They are not available at my local library but i haven't looked into the state library yet. I am only curious because I have a few Cayuga Ducks (also some chickens) that are just for my enjoyment but I also want to know what to look for so that I dont in the long run end up with a bunch of dull yellow billed birds....I know it doesn't state how to get to the standard but I can get that advice from others. However; I need to have a goal to work towards. I guess my long term goal is that my kids will have family raised birds if they ever decide to show in 4-H.....I don't agree with waiting until 2 weeks before achievement days and going to a breeder to grab 3 or 4 birds or purchasing some club calves but that is my personal take on it so wish us luck

you sadly have to buy directly from them. I would check your local thread and see if someone near buy has it to borrow. Maybe a 4H leader has it already.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Quote: This is true both ways............i didnt say they were wrong for saving them or wanting to. It was the other way around i was bashed up one side and down another for stating we cull deformed hatchlings right away. So our choice to not raise them was prosecuted and made to feel wrong.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

pbjmaker (love the name by the way, my youngest LOVES them) -just wanted to thank you for joining this chat. You are polite, bring in a good point of view and respect all sides without posting in a way to make anyone feel they are wrong.

 

[duckluck]

The small backyard mixed bird breeder doesnt bother AT ALL. It is when the same person takes said mixes and markets them as Breed X, Y or Z. That is what bothers me. Dont buy a mixed flock and then sell hatching eggs or hatchlings as anything but a mix. it would be like someone taking a mutt dog who has 1/8th german shepherd in them, breeding to another mutt from a GS mother/Lab dad and calling the pups GS pure bred.

The backyard breeder who wants to play with mixing their birds into what ever cross breed doesnt bother me, just again DONT try and market them as a pure bred animal.



UUmm no, Holderreads is one of the few if not only who labels hatchlings BQ, SQ. You wont find Metzers or any of the other super large hatcheries selling anything labeled as such. They sell ............Duck breed X, and Chicken Breed A with no additional labels.




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CULLING............does not ever mean the birds are put down......it means removing from the breeding program. Selling a bird male or female (we sell both as culls) as pets is not a bad thing. Culling simply means removable from a breeding program. Our son culled his BC Marans flock to 1 rooster 3 hens the others were sold as pets/egg layers (hens) the rooster were processed.

No one ever said backyard breeding of mixed flocks was bad.................but dont list them as pure bred anything and exspect a ton of money for them as some have done and continue to do. The same goes for birds who are genetic walking disasters, dont breed two birds with hip, leg, head, wing, bill issues and think it is OK.

We have a Sebbie gander who is going to be going to the freezer, he isnt worth breeding, ganders are a dime a dozen for mixed flocks, he does however have a great depth of body, so butchering it will be. We have Toulouse who have been and will be processed as well for the same reasons or because that was the planned purpose for them since we hatched them in the spring.
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Mixing breeds for personal use.........DO IT, but dont sell them as anything else but mixed breeds. DO It if it makes you smile, doesnt bother me one bit. Dont do it and then sell the off spring as pure anything.

We have a customer who recently bought what she was told was a Sebastopol "who just needs to grow more before the feathers will appear" and paid hundreds based on this persons "word" They have a white bird, with smooth feathers all over who appears to be at least a year if not 2. This is the type of breeding/selling that I am referring to.

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The SOP isnt an end all be all.......but it is a STARTING place.............but again vigor, fertility, strong healthy stock is also something that needs to be in a breeding program.

Call ducks have fertility issues......so do some lines of Sebastopols, some lines have ganders with bad performance. Sometimes we have to use scissors to give "hair cuts" to their back sides for breeding season. Those fluffy beautiful feathers we crave create breeding nightmares at times. LoL We trimmed a gander and 2 geese yesterday. the feathers grow back again, but to give good access for breeding they need some trimming up.

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anyone who wants to imply those who pay for a membership arent held to same rules are just being pety and trying to start a fight. end of discussion on that one.

we have a paid membership because if we want to link to our Farms website we have to have this membership. thats the RULE, so we follow it and pay yearly for that feature as well the other benefits that come with it.

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Do we mix breed any of our birds? YOU BETCHA....our Easter Egger flock is EE and AM mixed together. You wont catch us listing them as ANYTHING but EE's (unlike many hatcheries and some farms too). Why do we mix the AM into the EE? For the blue egg gene, but our EE flock is a multi colored feather flock who lay mainly blue eggs. Most of the new off spring are larger than previous birds, which was another goal for the flock. So NO mixing breeds isnt bad, but DONT market them as anything other than a mix.

Culling means a lot of different things to lot of people. I have heard it way too often used as an alternate word for "killing" myself. The only time anything is put down here is when it is in the best interest of the animal. The "worst" Call duck I ever bred, in terms of the standard, I tamed quite a bit and he made a fantastic pet for a child who wanted to try ducks and whose grandfather only wanted to buy one to start.

 

[duckluck]

Redhen, it's not confusing at all.
If it weren't for folks selling cheap, mid-quality birds I wouldn't have any at all. I have a lovely flock of identify-able - if not show quality birds. I had the opportunity of being given a dozen grown "redish-brown yard bird" chickens from a neighbor or picking out specific breeds that I wanted. I chose to buy a few cheap pet quality chicks. They were perfect for my 'starter flock'. I knew that they weren't 'show birds' when I picked them up. Because I have a bit of integrity, I would never try to pass them off as anything other than what they are.
Simple logic says that a breeder of good stock cares about their birds and about the breed they favor. They wouldn't toss all that money into the money pit otherwise. Therefore, it would also make sense that if they sell any 'non-show-quality' birds - for whatever reason - they will be sure to tell the buyer that the birds they are interested in are not showable. If they're smart, they will suggest that if the person wants show birds they will be happy to hook them up with a couple of grown champions for a much higher price.
I do intend to move up to some high quality pure bred birds one day. And I expect to pay WAY more than $2 each for them.
The same people who whine about breeders selling 'pet quality' animals would also take offense if told that a breeder will only sell show quality stock and will destroy all healthy, non-showable animals to protect their breed from irresponsible breeding.
Some people just can't play nice.

You have to bear in mind too that not all "show quality" birds are going to be equal either. The same birds that could win in a county fair, 4H or lower level show are not the same ones that will win at a show with 10,000 birds and will most likely be priced (and hopefully told) accordingly.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

it does mean a lot of different things.

we cull, and it doesnt mean we care less about our birds

but often people will make statements making those who do cull to feel bad for doing so or to look bad for doing so

we butcher, not kill, we never waste a life of a bird who has grown out.

humanely putting a new hatchling down is also NOT a bad thing. We do this when they hatch deformed in some way

everyone has their own way of raising their poultry, but for anyone to say culling is bad or wrong is not helpful when trying to explain that culling is not killing

 

[duckluck]

and we have been bad mouthed for saying we cull hatchlings with deformities.....one went as far as saying "you wouldnt kill a child with deformities" you are right, but these are livestock not children.

A lot of hatchlings cannot be helped. We have children's hospitals but we don't have duck hospitals.

 

[duckluck]

I am just curious if finding the standard is possible without actually purchasing the book from the APA? They are not available at my local library but i haven't looked into the state library yet. I am only curious because I have a few Cayuga Ducks (also some chickens) that are just for my enjoyment but I also want to know what to look for so that I dont in the long run end up with a bunch of dull yellow billed birds....I know it doesn't state how to get to the standard but I can get that advice from others. However; I need to have a goal to work towards. I guess my long term goal is that my kids will have family raised birds if they ever decide to show in 4-H.....I don't agree with waiting until 2 weeks before achievement days and going to a breeder to grab 3 or 4 birds or purchasing some club calves but that is my personal take on it so wish us luck

Check Ebay or Amazon, you may find a used copy of the last edition available. Or you may want to contact the International Waterfowl Breeders Association and see if they have any literature/article copies you could purchase on the Cayugas.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Quote: yes, and I am not a bad person for humanly culling a newly hatched chick, duck or goose who has major deformities. just as someone who choses to raise the same hatchlings is not a bad person and is also no better a person than I