Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Nambroth]

https://www.meyerhatchery.com/produ...Supplies&grd_prodone_filter=PRODUCT_ID = 'MRK'

And I called and confirmed.

Thank you. The person I talked to either didn't understand my question or was misinformed.

 

[CeeJ]

Th

Okay, if someone has already answered this, ignore it.  The reason I asked you to start the Super Bs is if it is caused by something other than Marek's, it will improve.  It can help a Marek's bird, but it will never cure it.  When I have had the occular form of the Marek's here, the pupil changes as does the eye color.  I have never had a bird go blind with out some kind of change to the eye, either before the blindness or right afterwards, as in a couple of days.  Is it possible?  Oh heck yeah!  You will find there are many flavors of this nasty stuff and all of us who have, have seen different symptoms in one form or another.  As I said before, you may have Marek's there, but I still think there is something else going on as well.  The Marek's you can't cure, something else you may or at least kick it back some.

As for the eggs and the meat from these birds...entirely safe to eat.  For one thing, Marek's doesn't transfer the eggs, for another, we cannot get chicken Marek's.  That herpes virus doesn't like us, we have our own.  You can even sell you eggs for eating and hatching if you clean them properly.  So far this herpes virus has not mutated enough to pass from avian to mammals, so no worries.  Look, do yourself a favor and buy some Oxine.  You can mix this stuff up and even spray it on your birds.  If it is a mold problem this can cure it and with what I've just learned, it could be one of the issues you are dealing with right now.

Thanks for the answer. I will now start the Super B tomorrow as I am finishing Cocci treatment today. I found blood under one birds roost spot (though I don't know for sure which one I think it's the older hen with vision problem). I will know for sure if it's her tonight. I read that mareks does make them more prone to things like cocci. But it could also be trouble with her shedding the intestinal lining. this was true blood red, not the orangish lining color. Ugh. I've seen mention of Vit E too. But unsure if that would apply in my case.

i will check into the oxine, however if I spend one more penny on these sick birds, I may be sleeping in the kennel with her. Sounds like you're dealing with the mold and blindness issue?

I read an older post yesterday with someone writing in about a bird who everyone gueesed was marecks. But a vet, and strong antibiotics reversed the paralysis of her bird. I believe she said it limped still, but had tecovered unlike most. Based on that and my own experience of a strong antibiotic treatment reversing the paralysis and possibly preventing new chicks coming down with anything (they had been dropping 1 new bird each day), I can't shake the feeling there is a bacterial infection to blame for all these symptoms. Antibiotics aren't usually suggested for mareks type symptoms, but with 2 different cases showing promise (even on different antibiotics) there must be something out there that mimics mareks. My next bird down will get a necropsy and I will discuss these thoughts further with the vet then. It is far fetched, but maybe not all these cases are mareks. And maybe more cam be saved. So far my other 11 chicks are doing great. But time will be the answer there.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

http://diseasemaps.usgs.gov/eee_fl_sentinel.html

I watch this map it's updated every month

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

I read this a lot, it also has a chart on the bottom.
My first Marek's case was dx as EEE by the vet here because he didn't find tumors. But it was neuro and ocular, it looked like it. But I discovered it's Mareks a year later when 10 six week old chicks died one a week , paralysis and no aim, wasting, some had a slow gasp, one got better than back to paralysis 2 weeks later. Then I knew why I lost a young adult (under a year) every few months from wasting.

You can actually give 1/10th of a ml vaccine to each for EEE. But there really isn't any down here nearby me. And it's pretty seasonal, too.

Nambroth, everyone here has some information on Marek's and we all share , and you have told me more about the cellular level that I never really did anything but skim thru.

I just realized a few nights ago that you were Derperella's and Trousers mom. (One big DUH for me!). I had one Salmon Faverolle that just dropped dead one night, I think she ate a dead mouse. I lost one recently, it might have been Marek's or heat stroke, or both. I really don't know. She didn't walk, then she would stand, but wasn't eating for a week, and barely any water. I have one left. The one that died was always a pale thing, and really suffered in the heat and she was the only one I had to dunk several times during the summer to cool her off.

 

[Nambroth]

seminolewind, thank you so much for the insights. I am so glad to have a group like you guys to learn from!! I was previously unaware chickens could become symptomatic from the EEE. At least West Nile Virus is not a concern for our chickens...

Thank you for the maps, too.

Yes, I have the Derperella flock. I knew about Marek's on the surface when I got into chickens (ordered vaccinated birds) but it was Trousers, RIP big guy, that got me started on this crazy Marek's rollercoaster ride. It's led me to more deeply research chicken viruses.

 

[seminolewind]

Th
Quote:

Last year, I had 7 healthy vaccinated x2 Polish. The were doing great at 10 weeks. 2 dropped dead without symptoms. When I picked them up blood came out. One more did the same. I did emergency doses of Corrid and Tylan. Seemed to resolve what I believe was necrotic enteritis caused by some bacteria, not cocci. Then I lost 3 more, they had a one eye infection, I put the rest on Tylan and saved the rest. My older Polish single chick, 4 months old, survived it but had a droopy eye that stayed.

I think if you vaccinate, you do yourself a big favor by vaccinating for coccidiosis as well. And have several antibiotics on hand because theses Marek's exposed even vaccinated birds seem to be real susceptible to opportunistic ailments. Coccidiosis is a frequent one. If you vaccinate, do not use medicated food. Oh yea the ones that died from enteritis were on medicated feed at the time, but not vaccinated for cocci.

I have 3 roos now that are from my flock and perhaps born resistant, and 2 other hens living at a stable that are also born resistant , and doing well. I think they are 5 and 6 months. I guess that may be the way to go. I heard that hatches from eggs from survivors have resistance, and not to vaccinate. So that's how they are.

Now I have one vaccinated by me along with 11 others , a year old, and one is wasting. It's heartbreaking to assume the vaccination will save all of them, but at a year old , one's not doing well.

I wonder if chickens from hens that are exposed and none of either vaccinated are more resistant than vaccinated ones? Those chicks were hatched from my oldest silkie who survived it all for 5 years and was one who had the closest contact to "Typhoid Mary", while her brother was the first to suffer 8 weeks after exposure.

11 of my chickens are almost 6 years old , unvaccinated and doing well. Most of mine that did suffer symptoms were under 8 months old, I think 3 were older than a year. One silkie , Minnie Mouse, was 5 went she became symptomatic. Her daughter became catatonic when MM died. I had to euthanize her. She stood in one spot for 3 days, not moving.

 

[seminolewind]

seminolewind, thank you so much for the insights. I am so glad to have a group like you guys to learn from!! I was previously unaware chickens could become symptomatic from the EEE. At least West Nile Virus is not a concern for our chickens...

Thank you for the maps, too.

Yes, I have the Derperella flock. I knew about Marek's on the surface when I got into chickens (ordered vaccinated birds) but it was Trousers, RIP big guy, that got me started on this crazy Marek's rollercoaster ride. It's led me to more deeply research chicken viruses.

Yea , my first demise was a silkie roo named Mush Mouse. I was so attached to him. I cried my eyes out. He got euthanized by the vet, I couldn't do it. That was a week before Christmas 3 years ago, and I cried all thru Christmas. He had all the classic symptoms, cloudy eye, paralysis, one leg back one forward. Couldn't aim at food. Lost control of his neck. I had him on my patio in a cage, and darn it, he still crowed in the morning!

 

[seminolewind]

Th
Quote:

Me and Haunted have talked about this a lot. It could be a number of things that Marek's mimics. That's something she taught me was to do the vitamins and keep trying because you don't know without a blood test or necropsy. Texas A&M sure made it easy with just sending blood. I should send my current one in to the lab here, just out of curiosity .

 

[BigECarter]

Murray McMurray gives a CVI/HVT/SB1 vaccine. So I have cancelled my MPC order (7 chicks from Meyer) and placed an order with McMurray (15 chicks + bonus). Minimum order Chicken Math, LOL. I'm feeling much more optimistic about living with Marek's. Anyone need some chicks?

E

 

[seminolewind]

I thought it was Murray McMurray. That vaccine is worth getting your chicks from there.

 

[fuzziecreatures]

I have a flock of 75+ chickens ages 3 years to 7 - 8 weeks. July 28th I noticed one of our Salmon Faverolle hens was swollen under her left eye and watery eye discharge. No sneezing or coughing, no nasal discharge but was rubbing face on neck.

She did have a small yellow piece of something under the third eyelid that I did eventually get out 4 days later. I tried treating her eye with antibiotic eye ointment, the swelling did slightly better but did not go away. It is still there. She is not worse, it is still only the left eye. She is the only one with this issue other than Buckshot the Sussex pullet.

Early September, one of my 6 month old Speckled Sussex pullets, Buckshot, developed a pea sized lump in front of her right eye, between her eye and nostril. I was hoping it was from one of the older birds pecking her since she was lower in the ranking. I noticed it one night at roost time, it was about the size of a half pea. The next day it was twice as big then it double in size once more. It got no worse, but she became lethargic and didn't want to eat or drink, febrile, panting. I isolated her and kept offering her all the yummy stuff they usually like, but she lost so much weight. Soaked chick crumble, yogurt and soaked crumble, yogurt and scratch, scrambled eggs, hard boiled eggs, instant mashed potatoes, steamed veggies, canned fruit. My husband started hand feeding her pieces of bread soaked in lard or gravy and that at least got her started again. I started her on Tylan 50 0.5ml intramuscularly for 5 days alternating breast muscles. I put her back in the coop after the swelling went down, she stopped panting and she was eating and drinking on her own. 4 days later, my husband found her standing by herself near the shed. All huddled up, weak. He offered her water, which she drank a lot of. He also gave her a bowl of chick crumbles. We isolated her again just so she could get her own food and water easily.
2nd day of food cage isolation, I came home from work and checked on her. She was standing in the cage panting again *sigh* But she got a drink and finished off her chick crumbles. I went down to the shed to get her more chick crumbles, scratch grains, BOSS and her SavAChick electrolyte powder. I came back up and she was resting in the cage. Initially I thought nothing of it until I talked to her and she didn't move. Then I realized she wasn't just laying down, she was dying. She was on her side, mouth open, head tucked tightly to her chest, unresponsive. Buckshot was dying and there was nothing more I could do for her but speed her passing. I ran in the house with the bird and asked my husband for his really sharp knife. I made sure to only cut her jugular veins so I could send her away. I apologized to her, and held her as she died. I immediately put her in a bag, in a cardboard box and in the fridge as it was a Thursday and I would not be able to send her out to have a necropsy done until Monday.

I sent her out Monday and received a phone call from the vet at the diagnostic medicine center at Penn State on Tuesday. Buckshot died because of massive tumors on her liver. The lump near her eye was also a mass. She had other masses as well but all I could hear was tumors of her liver. She couldn't breath well because her liver was so large that it was pressing on her air sacs and she just couldn't breath. She still had testing to do for exact cause of tumors but they appeared to be tumors caused by Marek's. She was testing for other causes of disease as well, parasites, mycoplasma etc. Awaiting final report. She recommended if I get anymore chicks that I get them vaccinated. I was expecting Mycoplasma or some other respiratory disease... I was not expecting Marek's.

I still have many pages of this thread to read.
My plans for selling excess pullets from our mixes and getting dark brahma breeding stock are ruined.