Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Leihamarie]

I thought I'd post an update on my Marek's flock.  I've been dealing with the disease for over 2 years now, and I'm about 20 months into my vaccine experiment. 

My flock had a very very virulent strain of Marek's that killed all my chicks and a couple of adult birds.  Since vaccinating, I have lost three birds, one cockerel for sure had Marek's and the other two developed crop issues which may or may not be related to Marek's.  I've been hatching many batches of chicks and vaccinating them all at hatch.  Some have been raised in a brooder, while others have been raised outside by a hen.  Since the broody raised chicks are potentially exposed to the virus before the vaccine has a chance create immunity, I was excited to see what would happen with the broody raised chicks.

The result was that more than 90% of the chicks never developed any signs of illness.  Unfortunately, I have had one pullet and two cockerels develop leg weakness and droopy wings.  I probably should of culled the pullet, but in the name of science I let her live.  After about 4 weeks she started to improve and made a full recovery.  She is one of my best layers now.  The first cockerel to get sick only had a slight limp for about 2 weeks.  He was raised to 6 months old and then processed.  The last bird developed moderate leg and wing paralysis.  He had extreme difficulty getting around, but never lost his appetite.  I think that is one of the key things with Marek's.  Once they don't want to eat any more they don't have much of a chance.  One day I went to the coop and he was laying on his back and couldn't roll himself over.  I thought the other birds would kill him.  Again, in the name of science I let him live just one more day.  He made a full recovery and started to grow again after he regained full mobility. 

Now he is a full grown beautiful rooster.

I think I will always have Marek's on my property, but at least my birds can survive if they are vaccinated.  Maybe this will provide some hope for others. 

Thanks for this! You gave me hope for hatching with a broody someday! I just got the final results back from a necropsy and it was determined Mareks, although they didn't specify what level of virulence it is. One pullet has so far survived (only showed symptoms of loose stools and some bile, no paralysis or sudden death which is what happened to the others) which I am VERY much hoping is the way it continues, since she's my favorite. I have re-populated with a few vaccinated same-age pullets to keep her company while I figure all of this out. I've done more research on Marek's then I ever wanted to but am soo, soooo glad there is life after Marek's. I am considering learning how to do in-ovo vaccination to be able to hatch under a broody (assuming my flock now survives to POL and beyond) but wondered about what happens when they hatch. The reality is, where I live, full separation of chicks from Mareks is not possible since my property/house is so small. What you've shared is very heartening! Thanks!!!

Please keep posting updates!

 

[lalaland]

ochochicas, that is good news!

I have broody hatched chicks from this spring that are just hitting point of lay - and they are all doing great so far. I had mareks diagnosed in the fall of 2014 and lost about 1/4th of the flock. I believe I had mareks in the flock for at least the previous year, based on some deaths and some necessary culling. I didn't let anyone hatch the following spring. I added some pullets that may or may not have been vaccinated, and they did fine So this spring, let some broodies hatch. And, so far so good, they are at about 6 months. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I don't vaccinate the chicks

 

[teaton]

I have a 3 month old pullet who is one of 8 that i kept from a bad batch i bought this fall. Long story short i bought 25 chicks from a bad breeder, they were all sick and started dying so we decided to send a few in for necropsy. They came back with MS, MG, cociddia, roundworm, mites and lice!!! Take into account these were 1 day old to few week old chicks.

We culled or let the really sick ones die off and disposed of them. There were 8 that thrived and never had any symptoms but we still treated them for mites, lice worms and coccidia. Now we knew they had been exposed there for would be carriers for life so we decided to get them thier own coop and to close our flock. I knew i should of culled all of them but i just couldnt do it to the ones with no symptoms. I absolutely know that does not mean they didnt have it, i knew they did too but i read somewhere that close to 90 percent of backyard flocks had mycroplasma so i thought why should i?

That brings us to whats been going on recently, a few weeks ago this baby started stumbling around like a drunk chicken, we seperated her gave her vitamin and antibiotics for a week she got better. Then it got cold, went into the teens for a few days and the 8 got really sick, most just respiratory one with infected eyes and this one stumbles so bad now it cannot walk! So we started everyone on antibiotics and vitamins again, everyone got better but her, shes getting worse everyday, its almost as if shes had a bad stroke or poisioned or something, she stumbles and shakes real bad whenever she tries to move, she cant even get up anymore and she thrashes herself backwards. Heres a video of her tonight, ive tried everything but i dont know whats wrong with her or what to do.

Ive been thinking about Mareks lately and the possibility that that could be what she has, that would just be the worse on top of everything eles!!! Wouldnt the necropsy have came back with that too if they had it? And why would just 1 be showing symptoms?

I will accept it if theres nothing i can do or if its best to cull, but i really hate to seeing as i have tried so hard on her these last few months, it always seems to be your favorites, And that just sucks!

This video is very hard to watch, its horrible but i had to show it for help!

 

[rebrascora]

Hi

So sorry to hear about your problems. I don't think all the blame can be dumped at the door of the breeder although clearly there must be some issues there. Were they NPIP certified? Not that it guarantees healthy chicks but indicates people are trying to do things properly. Coccidiosis is everywhere and probably more likely to be caused by a different strain in your location than the one they were hatched into. Using medicated chick crumb as a preventative and having Corid on hand to treat an outbreak is something most experienced poultry keepers would do. Coccidiosis is probably the primary killer of chicks so it is something everyone needs to be aware of. MG I believe can be transmitted through the egg from parent to chick, so that probably is one of the breeders issues. Marek's however cannot be "inherited" like that. They could however have been infected after hatch and it lain dormant until something triggered it. However Marek's can be wind bourn as well as many other means of transmission, so it is equally possible that they have subsequently been infected as it is a very widespread virus.

The chick in the video definitely does appear to have a neurological problem but I couldn't say for sure it is caused by Marek's. I believe the testing for Marek's is quite expensive and may need to be specifically requested as part of a necropsy, particularly if it is suspected. If the chicks were just young when they died then they probably would not have had it. Typically it shows up between 8-25 weeks. Your chick appears quite strong and I normally give supportive care with my Marek's chicks until they give up fighting it. It usually ends in heartache but I have had some miraculous recoveries and have one little bantam cockerel at the moment that is 8 months old and making a total nuisance of himself with the big girls, but I was psyching myself up to cull him a few months ago because he couldn't walk. He will most likely have another attack before the winter is out or next autumn/winter but you can't tell anything is wrong with him at all at the moment. Sadly the pullet that suffered a similar attack at the same time, didn't make it.

I would confine your chick to a small secure area like a dog crate with food and water. I keep mine within the flock as I know that my flock has already been exposed and separating them just depresses them and they decline rapidly. You may want to rig up a chicken sling or hammock to support her if she is struggling to stay upright. If you do a search for chicken sling, you should get plenty of hits with images. It can be as simple as putting an old t shirt over a cardboard box and cutting slots in it over the open top for her legs to go through and another under her vent for poop to drop through, then you can also cut slots in front of her and push empty yoghurt cartons with food and water into them so she can reach. You need to adjust the tension so that she is supported off the bottom of the box and this can be done by stapling the t shirt to the box sides.

Good luck with your pullet and the remainder of your flock and fingers crossed it is not Marek's.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[teaton]

Hi

So sorry to hear about your problems. I don't think all the blame can be dumped at the door of the breeder although clearly there must be some issues there. Were they NPIP certified? Not that it guarantees healthy chicks but indicates people are trying to do things properly. Coccidiosis is everywhere and probably more likely to be caused by a different strain in your location than the one they were hatched into. Using medicated chick crumb as a preventative and having Corid on hand to treat an outbreak is something most experienced poultry keepers would do. Coccidiosis is probably the primary killer of chicks so it is something everyone needs to be aware of. MG I believe can be transmitted through the egg from parent to chick, so that probably is one of the breeders issues. Marek's however cannot be "inherited" like that. They could however have been infected after hatch and it lain dormant until something triggered it. However Marek's can be wind bourn as well as many other means of transmission, so it is equally possible that they have subsequently been infected as it is a very widespread virus. 

The chick in the video definitely does appear to have a neurological problem but I couldn't say for sure it is caused by Marek's. I believe the testing for Marek's is quite expensive and may need to be specifically requested as part of a necropsy, particularly if it is suspected. If the chicks were just young when they died then they probably would not have had it. Typically it shows up between 8-25 weeks. Your chick appears quite strong and I normally give supportive care with my Marek's chicks until they give up fighting it. It usually ends in heartache but I have had some miraculous recoveries and have one little bantam cockerel at the moment that is 8 months old and making a total nuisance of himself with the big girls, but I was psyching myself up to cull him a few months ago because he couldn't walk. He will most likely have another attack before the winter is out or next autumn/winter but you can't tell anything is wrong with him at all at the moment. Sadly the pullet that suffered a similar attack at the same time, didn't make it. 

I would confine your chick to a small secure area like a dog crate with food and water. I keep mine within the flock as I know that my flock has already been exposed and separating them just depresses them and they decline rapidly. You may want to rig up a chicken sling or hammock to support her if she is struggling to stay upright. If you do a search for chicken sling, you should get plenty of hits with images. It can be as simple as putting an old t shirt over a cardboard box and cutting slots in it over the open top for her legs to go through and another under her vent for poop to drop through, then you can also cut slots in front of her and push empty yoghurt cartons with food and water into them so she can reach. You need to adjust the tension so that she is supported off the bottom of the box and this can be done by stapling the t shirt to the box sides.

Good luck with your pullet and the remainder of your flock and fingers crossed it is not Marek's.

Best wishes

Barbara 

Thank you for all the information, no the breeder was not nipi certified and the state vet sure did tell me how important that was! Unfortunately i bought 25 from her that were 3 diffrent ages 8 were 1 day old, 8 were 2 weeks old, and 9 were 1 month olds that were already living in her barn with the other chickens, the one month old and day old chicks all died first these are the 2 week olds, and even though they were all kept together in my garage they never showed any symptoms until the cold snap we just had.

Do you think Coccidiosis could be causing her to act this way? I have corrid. Idk I really dont want it to be Mareks honestly but this is her second attack of whatever this is in a month, and i dont know of anything eles that does that Im with you shes pretty strong and her feet move she just cant balance like shes had a stroke or gotten into something bad or something.

Can mycroplasma or mites or cociddia effect the brain like this?

One things for sure though if she dont get better soon i will have to end her suffering, eventhough i know its best thats gonna be one of the hardest things ill have to do, Im just really hoping she got into something or ate some moldy food which isnt impossible seeing as shes been in the barn this whole time, not in the coop.

 

[rebrascora]

Have you tried vitamin supplements? Particularly Vit B complex Vit E and selenium I believe are the key ones for neurological problems. I would be loath to treat for coccidiosis now without more obvious symptoms.....I was just suggesting that it was not necessarily the breeders fault if your chicks had died from coccidia after you got them....change in environment and mixing different ages may well have triggered an outbreak. If it was coccidiosis causing problems now, I would expect the chick to be uncoordinated due to weakness whereas she appears strong but just not able to control muscles/balance.
Did she fully recover from the first attack and was it similar to this? My first Marek's birds both presented with lameness and then another one started floundering on it's side a few days later, doing the "Marek's split's", so it was quite classic symptoms and I was able to identify the disease quite quickly and a post mortem exam on the first one revealed tumours. Since then most of mine that have suffered it, have initially shown lameness or a dropped wing and occasionally wry neck as well, which is why I am a little hesitant to suggest yours is Marek's.

Definitely worth trying vitamins if you haven't already.

Regards

Barbara

 

[teaton]

Ive had her on the vitamin and electrolyte powder the whole time, but I did go today and get the vitamin b complex and gave it to her as a last resort. Shes not doing very good at all!

 

[spazy67]

Please what is this thought maybe mites and dusted then she seemed to have a this layer of scab I was able to soak off easy I did cut away most feathers but of course she has lost most of them I have been treating with Neosporin non pain and water down iodine she is a 9 mo old frizzle and so mad her puffy butt is gone. Lol but she is.drinking and eating normal for her which is hardley anything she has vet Monday but in the meantime any thoughts

 

[teaton]

Well i just wanted to update everyone i didn't cull the baby i suspected had mereks because for 1 it wouldn't of done any good everyones already been exposed, for 2 i didnt know for sure thats what she had and 3 i wanted to see if she could pull through, I felt really bad about it a few times and almost did euthanize her, but the last 2 days shes shown signs of improvement. She can steady herself and walk a short distance now, when before she couldnt at all, she couldn't even stand!
Im still not convinced its not mereks because from what ive read symptoms can come and go, and return, this is her 2nd episode, but it was much worse this time. Im also not convinced it wasnt botulism, or mycroplasma(i know she 100 % does have that) and i read mycroplasma can mimic Marek's symptoms. Her legs never spayed or paralized she just couldnt control her body.
Anywho with no idea what i was dealing with I started treating for everything she has been on a cocktail of b complex liquid supplement and duramyicin with corid in water, it has seemed to help so far, although i know were not out of the woods yet until she completely recovers.
But here she is walking today

 

[ochochicas]

How is your chicken doing now Teaton? I didn't watch the video, but I think it is hopeful if she is eating and not getting any worse.

On a side note, I have had a few of my vaccinated chicks come down with Marek's symptoms. Ironically, 3 were cockerels and only one was a pullet. The first cockerel was lethargic and wouldn't eat. He died around 5 months of age. The other 3 showed signs of leg paralysis starting at 2 - 3 months. They all got worse to the point that I thought about culling them. However, they were eating and hanging out with the flock, so I kept them alive. I made sure to feed them berries and other foods full of antioxidants. One cockerel had leg and wing weakness so bad that he would fall onto his back and couldn't turn back over.

After about 4 week they all recovered. I still have 2 of the 3 and they are just like normal chickens (the third one became soup). Somehow the vaccine gave them enough immunity to fight off the virus and survive. Unfortunately they are all still carriers.