Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[KAT Bird]

Awww, Miss Olivia is so cute.  I don't know how old she is.  I would surely wait and see if it's an injury.  My last hen did that and I was sure it was Marek's and it turned out to be a rare form of liver cancer.  As long as she eats and keeps her weight, I would give her time.  Stay positive.  How old is she?

Had Olivia at the vet's today. She is still limping but now I can feel a mass. It is located in front of her hip joint. I'm sure this is the cause of her limping. The vet took a needle biopsy and put her on Metacam for inflammation. I am not very optimistic about the potential outcome. She is unvaccinated. She would be two years old in April. Still eating, preening and acting like a normal chicken aside from this new discovery. I will likely know more on Monday. I asked the vet if he thought she was in pain and he said no. She didn't seem bothered by the needle being stuck into it or him pushing on it. He feels it is likely Marek's and involves a tumor on a bundle of nerves located in that area. But he had some doubts so we biopsied.

 

[seminolewind]

I would still be on the side of optimistic until it's a sure thing. Keep feeding her!

 

[Nambroth]

Had Olivia at the vet's today. She is still limping but now I can feel a mass. It is located in front of her hip joint. I'm sure this is the cause of her limping. The vet took a needle biopsy and put her on Metacam for inflammation. I am not very optimistic about the potential outcome. She is unvaccinated. She would be two years old in April. Still eating, preening and acting like a normal chicken aside from this new discovery. I will likely know more on Monday. I asked the vet if he thought she was in pain and he said no. She didn't seem bothered by the needle being stuck into it or him pushing on it. He feels it is likely Marek's and involves a tumor on a bundle of nerves located in that area. But he had some doubts so we biopsied.

What sort of biopsy did they take? A tissue sample or an aspiration? (Solid or was there some fluid?) The first will probably require sending out to a lab, the second they should have been able to examine in-house. Reading your description it sounds like they took a tissue sample.

 

[KAT Bird]

What sort of biopsy did they take? A tissue sample or an aspiration? (Solid or was there some fluid?) The first will probably require sending out to a lab, the second they should have been able to examine in-house. Reading your description it sounds like they took a tissue sample.

He tried the needle aspiration but got very little fluid. What he did get he thought looked like lymphosarcoma. He thought maybe the anti-inflammatory medication might shrink it and he may attempt to remove it. But he cautioned me that the surgery might not be a good option either. We decided to put her on the medication and see what happens by Monday. He felt that if it would shrink it, it would happen rather dramatically and we should see some improvement within a few days or it may do nothing at all and the mass may get larger.

The weird part is that I didn't feel the mass until today and she has been limping for about two weeks. It seems like it just magically appeared and it is about the size of a quarter. I know it has probably been there longer but it was rather shocking to discover it that large today.

I certainly don't want her to suffer but right now she seems rather content. I bought her some live crickets tonight and she did a decent job of catching them on one leg. This will likely end in heart break but I will give her love and spoil her up until it's time to make that difficult decision. I would also like to send her for necropsy, but I am unsure if I can do that if she has been euthanized by the vet? I just wondered if the chemicals would effect the pathology?

 

[tridentk9]

Nambroth, I was reading something last year about a man who was trying to make a 'hair spray' for his infected birds from potato starch.  His idea was that if the feathers could be stiffened, like women used to wear their hair, there would be a lot less sheds being put into the air.  Especially in the coop.  No idea if he ever perfected it or even followed up with it.  At the time, I was a little bit busy and never even got a chance to contact him about it.  At first it does sound just a bit off, but then when you really start to look at the process of the elimination of the dead cells...it's crazy enough to work.  I don't think I'd want to go that route for myself.  Any place that has the dampness we've been going through the last few years could be setting themselves up for some kind of bacterial infection and the added chance of increased feather picking.  Still, if the right formula could be attained....I think the idea, as I said, is crazy enough to work by cutting the chances of it down in that respect quite nicely.  I know that spraying the birds with a solution of Oxine helped, but that can get expensive.  Casport, any thoughts?

Anyone else humming the theme to Goldfinger about now? There have been times when I thought that painting my animals with gold just might have been a less expensive option than the medical choices I made.

Using a ventilation system for cleaning poop boards, etc would help with the dander, both for humans and chickens. A shop vac could be retrofitted with some MacGyvered hoses and dust hood ...... More POWER!! Anyway, the amount of dander will have a bearing on disease rate.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: This sounds like something Kim would think of (Mightmax)



I have just read a real good article on Marek's. It's not new, but it mentions some things that are not new ideas, but get me thinking. I have to transfer it back to my main pc because this one is limited. Then I can post the link.

A few points being '
there's an acute form of Mareks' which gives a chicken paralysis for a few days. It could have something to do with the "cure" not really being the "cure"

There's also Marek's virus in chickens that does not cause tumors, paralysis, or immunosuppression, and may be part of why an older bird develops resistance.

Immunosuppression being a hefty part of the lives of those who do not die by tumor or nerve paralysis. Those "lucky" ones will go on into their immunodepressed lives and die from something else that they should have been able to fight off.

I know all of my chickens here are exposed . Half are vaccinated and half older and not. Out of 12 Polish that I hatched and vaccinated a few years ago, I have 4 left. Some of the 8 that died could have possibly been saved by a antibiotic/anti cocci cocktail. 3 of the 4 survivors managed to survive because of that cocktail .

One of them decided to waste away on me recently and she got the cocktail and is fat and happy again . I gave the cocktail to my 7 older skinny birds and their weight has picked up since then.

Out of 7 of mine that died this year, I believe 4 may have been saved with the cocktail.

So I feel that I have some good reason or past experience to give the cocktail to anyone who has unexplained weight loss or is just mopey in hopes that "Marek's wasting" is really some solvable illness that needs a cocktail . This is not a cure for paralysis or tumors.
My cocktail being sulfadimethoxine and a cillin antibiotic or Tylan.

 

[LolaChick]

He tried the needle aspiration but got very little fluid. What he did get he thought looked like lymphosarcoma. He thought maybe the anti-inflammatory medication might shrink it and he may attempt to remove it. But he cautioned me that the surgery might not be a good option either. We decided to put her on the medication and see what happens by Monday. He felt that if it would shrink it, it would happen rather dramatically and we should see some improvement within a few days or it may do nothing at all and the mass may get larger.

The weird part is that I didn't feel the mass until today and she has been limping for about two weeks. It seems like it just magically appeared and it is about the size of a quarter. I know it has probably been there longer but it was rather shocking to discover it that large today.

I certainly don't want her to suffer but right now she seems rather content. I bought her some live crickets tonight and she did a decent job of catching them on one leg. This will likely end in heart break but I will give her love and spoil her up until it's time to make that difficult decision. I would also like to send her for necropsy, but I am unsure if I can do that if she has been euthanized by the vet? I just wondered if the chemicals would effect the pathology?

so sorry to hear about olivia and her recent health struggles. having just been through similar situations right now with two babies, i understand. for what it's worth and just so you know, i did have my first pullet necropsied after euthanasia at the vet. there were no problems and we did still get a full necropsy with marek's diagnosis. the only result of the necropsy, of course, was that i did not keep her body for burial and it was released to the necropsy site. given my fox and raccoon situation in the area, though, i don't think burial would have been our best choice. ugh.

 

[seminolewind]

Lola, always better to get the dx and know. How old was she?

I've still had 3 necropsy negatives for Marek's even tho these 3 were older exposed hens. Maybe resistance or natural immunity is not concentrated enough for a positive.

 

[Nambroth]

I certainly don't want her to suffer but right now she seems rather content. I bought her some live crickets tonight and she did a decent job of catching them on one leg. This will likely end in heart break but I will give her love and spoil her up until it's time to make that difficult decision. I would also like to send her for necropsy, but I am unsure if I can do that if she has been euthanized by the vet? I just wondered if the chemicals would effect the pathology?

Necropsy can be preformed on a bird that is chemically euthanized. Ask your vet to take blood samples before euthanasia if you anticipate needing any blood testing done. Tissue samples, obviously, can be taken during necropsy. I had both blood and tissue samples submitted for PCR sequencing of Marek's and ALL/ALV (Leukosis) before we euthanized him. He was so unwell that the procedure didn't stress him. Poor guy. Make sure your vet knows if they need whole blood, etc, so that it is stored properly-- if you go that route. I can't recall which tests needed what.

I do hope it doesn't come to that and that she recovers!

Anyone else humming the theme to Goldfinger about now? There have been times when I thought that painting my animals with gold just might have been a less expensive option than the medical choices I made.

Using a ventilation system for cleaning poop boards, etc would help with the dander, both for humans and chickens. A shop vac could be retrofitted with some MacGyvered hoses and dust hood ...... More POWER!! Anyway, the amount of dander will have a bearing on disease rate.

Indeed-- keeping chickens from producing dander is impossible, but the housekeeping things we do to reduce its spread can not hurt!!

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: This sounds like something Kim would think of (Mightmax)



I have just read a real good article on Marek's. It's not new, but it mentions some things that are not new ideas, but get me thinking. I have to transfer it back to my main pc because this one is limited. Then I can post the link.

A few points being '
there's an acute form of Mareks' which gives a chicken paralysis for a few days. It could have something to do with the "cure" not really being the "cure"

There's also Marek's virus in chickens that does not cause tumors, paralysis, or immunosuppression, and may be part of why an older bird develops resistance.

Immunosuppression being a hefty part of the lives of those who do not die by tumor or nerve paralysis. Those "lucky" ones will go on into their immunodepressed lives and die from something else that they should have been able to fight off.

I know all of my chickens here are exposed . Half are vaccinated and half older and not. Out of 12 Polish that I hatched and vaccinated a few years ago, I have 4 left. Some of the 8 that died could have possibly been saved by a antibiotic/anti cocci cocktail. 3 of the 4 survivors managed to survive because of that cocktail .

One of them decided to waste away on me recently and she got the cocktail and is fat and happy again . I gave the cocktail to my 7 older skinny birds and their weight has picked up since then.

Out of 7 of mine that died this year, I believe 4 may have been saved with the cocktail.

So I feel that I have some good reason or past experience to give the cocktail to anyone who has unexplained weight loss or is just mopey in hopes that "Marek's wasting" is really some solvable illness that needs a cocktail . This is not a cure for paralysis or tumors.
My cocktail being sulfadimethoxine and a cillin antibiotic or Tylan.

Here's the article I like' drive:drive/root/D9316.PDF I guess you have to cut and paste it