Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[ochochicas]

In the end, watching your babies get sick and die from Marek's is horrible. I am choosing to vaccinate regardless of any miniscule risk that the vaccine may or may not hold. Personally I would not want any of my birds to be knowingly exposed to, infected by, and killed by a virus just because they are the "weak link". It would be like telling your kids to run with scissors - if they are dumb enough to trip and all on them then they don't deserve to grow up anyway.

 

[mightymax]

PLEASE...Make no mistake about it...I am 100% FOR giving vaccines and keeping up with a vaccination schedule. I mean heck...I wish they'd had the vaccine for chicken pox back when I came down with them. Then I wouldn't have had to suffer with the huge, oozing pocs that covered my entire body from the top of my head to the tip of my toes (and everywhere you could think of in between...for real !!!) For 6 long and painful weeks I kept getting new pocs all over my body. Nothing seemed to alleviate them or shorten their progress. I still have a few deep 'poc' mark scars from where they had to lance them for fear that letting them drain on their own would set me up for sepsis It got so bad that they finally ended up giving me those cocktails of meds. that they gave to people with AIDS. I got them at the ripe old age of 23 from a college roommates kid, and as most people know, childhood diseases that develop in adults are usually much harder to recover from and are significantly more deadly when compared to our younger counterparts version of the same disease. A doctor once told me that I'd better pray real hard that I never, ever contract shingles because my varicellas titer is sooo astronomically high that even if I got just the slightest case of shingles I would want to die due to the pain. Nothing else like it in the world, he'd say. Not with that
titer you've got...and then he'd just laugh You are correct.,.,.the benefits vaccines offer FAR AND ABOVE outweigh the risks !!! I only responded in the fashion I did to clear the air and help minimize any damage that may have been done due to some of the misinformation posted here.

-kim-

 

[Sonya9]

While that indeed may be pretty apparent to everyone here, I find it really apparent that the dialect of your army is doublespeak.

-kim-

Wow. Okay then, I am not going to exchange insults or argue on the topic.

 

[lalaland]

ack! hope everyone remembers how easiy it is to get the wrong tone in writing because we are missing the rest of the communication - easiest if you assume the person really likes y ou and is just trying to discuss the topic. Sometimes things come across harsher then they were meant....

Sonya and mighty max, I really liked reading all of your posts as Sonya's metaphors of the soldiers helped me understand somethings, and Mightymax, your countering was also helpful. Its a complex issue that is hard to sort out for those of us like me, who do not have a medical or biology background. And clearly vaccines are controversial.

Deep breath everyone! I think the gist of it is there are different viewpoints, and talking about them, turning them over, thinking about them, trying your best to illustrate your ideas, ....this is all good and the perfect place to do it. Remember, if you see it one way and I see it the other way, it is hard to discuss that in a forum without making it clear that we think differently! but, the arguments are about the IDEAS not the person.

ok, stepping off my soap box, and carry on!

 

[rbaker0345]

Isn't the vaccine a modified live variant of the Turkey form of Mareks? (the name of which escapes me now)

I had all of my Bresse come down with Mareks and all but three have died slowly, wasting away with good appetites. I am down to one hen and two cockerels but I got a good number of babies from them and from some unrelated shipped eggs- vaccinated them and every other chick I've hatched since. The three adults I still have are still very healthy and I think they probably have good genes but I fully expect them to die from Mareks related illness before their time.

I think the statistics are something like 70% of all backyard chickens (that don't die of some kind of accident or for food) will die of a Mareks related illness. Mareks supresses the immune system and so in addition to the tumors, it can also cause URD's and open your birds to wierd parasitic infections. Its horrible.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi

Sorry to hear about your Bresse flock. That must have been heart breaking. I know how distressing it was to have to cull one that was beyond hope. Caring for them when they are sick causes you to become so much more attached to them that it makes losing them even harder.

I'm just a few months into Marek's in my flock and I'm not doing too badly at the moment (only lost one that was knowingly Marek's). I've had 4 others with lameness, 3 fully recovered, one had a relapse but is recovering again and the other has got no worse in 4 months and happily hops about. These are home bred youngsters which are now about 40 weeks and past puberty. I'm wondering if things are going to get progressively and dramatically worse or if I've hit a plateau and things will stay at this level until/if my next batch of chicks hatch and reach the perilous age bracket. My broodies hatched 31 chicks last year and 24 made it to adulthood which I think is not bad considering they free range. Losses were accidents, dog/fox attack, one died suddenly at 5 weeks(perhaps Mareks but I didn't know anything about it then) and the one pullet I had to cull at about 17 weeks which had massive tumours. I have not had a new case in a couple of months.

I'm also curious to know if there are any studies regarding the incidence of Marek's within broody reared hatches as compared to incubator/brooder reared. I have read that broody hen reared chicks are less prone to coccidiosis and are generally more robust and I'm just wondering if this may apply to Marek's too and is why I haven't had huge losses to it, or if I'm being a bit naïve and more of my flock will develop symptoms in the near future.

Also, those breeding for resistance to it..... Do you use chickens that have had symptoms and recovered or those that have shown no symptoms in a flock where others have it.

Thanks in advance for any input and apologies if this has already been covered as I haven't had time to read this thread from the beginning....yet!

Regards

Barbara.

 

[seminolewind]

ack! hope everyone remembers how easiy it is to get the wrong tone in writing because we are missing the rest of the communication - easiest if you assume the person really likes y ou and is just trying to discuss the topic. Sometimes things come across harsher then they were meant....

Sonya and mighty max, I really liked reading all of your posts as Sonya's metaphors of the soldiers helped me understand somethings, and Mightymax, your countering was also helpful. Its a complex issue that is hard to sort out for those of us like me, who do not have a medical or biology background. And clearly vaccines are controversial.

Deep breath everyone! I think the gist of it is there are different viewpoints, and talking about them, turning them over, thinking about them, trying your best to illustrate your ideas, ....this is all good and the perfect place to do it. Remember, if you see it one way and I see it the other way, it is hard to discuss that in a forum without making it clear that we think differently! but, the arguments are about the IDEAS not the person.

ok, stepping off my soap box, and carry on!

I totally agree! Sometimes it's very hard to distinguish tone in replies. I thought of their conversation as being like they are each on different floors of the same apartment building. I think we're all passionate about this subject. Lala, you can have your soapbox back.
I do think that it's important to build the army before the enemy comes, and that can only be done by vaccine. Unfortunately, the only army we can produce right now is the one that kills the tumor aspect. Not any of the other stuff. And immunosuppression is a lot more important that it's given credit for.

 

[seminolewind]

Isn't the vaccine a modified live variant of the Turkey form of Mareks? (the name of which escapes me now)

I had all of my Bresse come down with Mareks and all but three have died slowly, wasting away with good appetites. I am down to one hen and two cockerels but I got a good number of babies from them and from some unrelated shipped eggs- vaccinated them and every other chick I've hatched since. The three adults I still have are still very healthy and I think they probably have good genes but I fully expect them to die from Mareks related illness before their time.

I think the statistics are something like 70% of all backyard chickens (that don't die of some kind of accident or for food) will die of a Mareks related illness. Mareks supresses the immune system and so in addition to the tumors, it can also cause URD's and open your birds to wierd parasitic infections. Its horrible.

I'm working with the idea that some death by wasting may be caused by sub clinical infection, and can be treated. I could be way off, but so far so good.

rbaker, the vaccine can be a form of Turkey Marek's, or true Marek's virus that's been changed in some way that it's not going to give a chicken Marek's, just expose them so they grow the antibodies.

 

[ochochicas]

My vaccine is manufactured by Pfizer. It is Serotype 3 Live virus.

The vaccine produced by Merial is Serotype 2 Live Virus.

I cannot find any info on the manufacturing process of either one. I wonder if one Serotype is more effective in protecting birds that the other.

 

[rbaker0345]

I did a necropsy oon the last hen that died by wasting. She had had mareks at about 7 weeks and recovered. She started showing signs of a problem at 2yrs. Just like the others before her, the first symptoms were like bluecomb: slightly labored breathing, bluish tinge to the points of the comb foamy diarrhea. But good appetite. I treated with erythromycin for 14 days at the max dose and I also did a fecal float. She was positive for strongyles, two different types of tapes and coccidia. So i treated with praziquantel also. She improved for about a month but then she went downhill again. It took her another month to expire. For the sake of being able tosee threthe full extent of the disease process, I let her go without culling her. She was still acceptably comfortable up until the last few days. Upon necropsy I found a neoplasm which originated in the spine, but had grown into a lung and an ovary. Her heartandkidneys were enlarged and her heart had the texture of her liver.