- Mar 12, 2010
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Oh don't even get me started on sumatras, LOL. We have bred our line for about 10 years now, only keeping birds that meet the standard for type (we work with dun and blue as well) but always select for a good looking bird. We have a friend who got some birds from us a few years back and introduced some other well known lines (not going to mention names) and bred towards what the judges are placing. Well, we inherited his whole flock and comparing our birds with his is like 2 different breeds. So many of the sumatras these days are HUGE, they are loose feathered, tails are too long, they just lack the wild, sumatra look and to me they seem more domestic. There is a member here who has birds from a judges line and she talks them up so high. To me, they look like an australorp body with a phoenix tail and a clean faced EE head. According to her, she talks to the judge and he is the one who advises her to breed for birds like that because according to him "that's what sumatras are supposed to look like" meaning the big domestic looking birds.I'm totally FOR SCALES at shows. The Sumatras they are showing now are just huge.... way over the Standard I can guarantee it. They are suppose to be 5 lbs. I show Cubalayas that are 6 lbs (Standard weight) and they are dwarfed by the Sumatras.
The worse part is a great majority of the judges will place those Sumatras and make ridiculous comments like, 'Best Sumatra I've ever seen.' How can it be the best when it needs to be DQed!!!!!!!!!
The weighing debate has been around for 50 years that I know of.......I'm not sure if it will ever be changed. Talking about it here won't get it done. It is not so much a weighing problem, than it is a judging problem. Most judges know when a bird is overweight/underweight. Things can be changed, but it needs exhibitors complaining in Poultry Press and other venues.....hardly any judges come to BYC.
Most of the big Cochin bantams you see just look big......most are just feathers. The SOP addresses the weight, not the physical size of the bird. looks can sometimes be deceiving. If you see a giant large white Rock it is probably overweight.
I agree that the weights should be used, but it is a judging issue, not a SOP issue. The only way to change it is to campaign the ABA/APA judges sections. There has never been a serious attempt to change this judging practice.
Walt
As I understand it sumatras should be sleek and elegant not a heavy broadbreasted bird.......butOh don't even get me started on sumatras, LOL. We have bred our line for about 10 years now, only keeping birds that meet the standard for type (we work with dun and blue as well) but always select for a good looking bird. We have a friend who got some birds from us a few years back and introduced some other well known lines (not going to mention names) and bred towards what the judges are placing. Well, we inherited his whole flock and comparing our birds with his is like 2 different breeds. So many of the sumatras these days are HUGE, they are loose feathered, tails are too long, they just lack the wild, sumatra look and to me they seem more domestic. There is a member here who has birds from a judges line and she talks them up so high. To me, they look like an australorp body with a phoenix tail and a clean faced EE head. According to her, she talks to the judge and he is the one who advises her to breed for birds like that because according to him "that's what sumatras are supposed to look like" meaning the big domestic looking birds.
I could keep going but I have to head off to work for the day but I will continue when I get home tonight!
he still has his sumatras and minorcas and other birdsRichard Schock got out of birds more than 5 years ago. He was one of the top breeders of Sumatras.
His were considered the best Sumatras in the South.
Me, too. I think it would be great.I'm totally FOR SCALES at shows.
Isn't that the truth. You'll find "bigger is better" with "sticklers for proper weight" working side by side.Not all judges are equal.
I think there are actually a lot of judges that are pro proper weight. Why wouldn't one be? It adds another level of challenge and exactitutde, part of what makes the fancy aspect of poultry interesting and challenging.I agree that the weights should be used, but it is a judging issue, not a SOP issue. The only way to change it is to campaign the ABA/APA judges sections. There has never been a serious attempt to change this judging practice.
Walt
I am troubled by any breed of any species that is of the useful sort, but is raised exclusively for the show ring. Whether it is dogs, livestock etc. I don't want to get away from what they were meant to be. Most breeds of poultry were farm fowl. Often they were an improvement over their predecessors, or fit a style of management better.
There is a lot to be said in this. Those big birds are beautiful birds, but are they beautiful Sumatras? Sumatras have the reputation of being the best flyer of all poultry. Those big birds aren't about to set a record.So many of the sumatras these days are HUGE, they are loose feathered, tails are too long, they just lack the wild, sumatra look and to me they seem more domestic.