Thanks for the guidance big medicine. Now that I think about it dominant white in buff lacing makes sense. I'm finally beginning to understand the basics of genetics.
Ongoing Brahma Projects Thread
- Thread starter brahmapapa
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Thanks for the guidance big medicine. Now that I think about it dominant white in buff lacing makes sense. I'm finally beginning to understand the basics of genetics.
There is a good chance that your white hens ( if they are solid white) are actually recessive white, a completely different type of white
Whereas dominant white basically turns the black part of the feather white, largely leaving the gold parts alone, and only requires one copy to show itself.
Recessive white successfully switches off all color and requires two copies to show itself. A one copy recessive white bird will look it's natural (non white0 color pattern A possible exception to this might be a naturally black bird with dominant white that may also carry a single copy of recessive white. I believe a few breeds, or at least some lines of some breeds may carry both dominant and recessive white.
As to when to choose which laced birds are kept as potential breeders. When working with these projects, during the developmental phases, you will often have to deal with breeder birds that will not posses all the proper two copy sets of the required genes for whatever particular feather pattern you are striving for. As a result you will produce many, many, off marked chicks until you get the genetics dialed in better. Depending how many generations you are into a project, and to a large degree how good you are at it, ideally each successive generation brings you closer to your goal. But it is always dependent somewhat on the luck of the draw, each generation is a role of the dice that the proper combination of genes come together to get you closer to your goal. This is why hatching as many chicks as you can handle helps your odds of getting the very few keepers that will advance your program.
Early on, when they all look nothing like the bird you have in you head, and continuing during the entire process, place your major emphasis on proper Brahma type (build/size and temperament). It is very easy to become enamored with a bird that maybe has a better pattern, overlooking it's other major short comings . While you mat get the pattern down quicker using these birds, people often end up with just another pretty bird that has no more Brahma type than your average hatchery Wyandotte, or Rock. It is my personal feeling that you are much better off in the long run picking the superior typed bird over a possibly better marked bird even though it may delay your final reaching your goal a few years, as you are still way ahead of blowing up the project later bringing in outside blood to fix poor type.
It has been my experience that poor lacing will show itself early, and will not improve with maturation. The only benefit of waiting would be the possibility of a superior typed bird developing among the less than ideal laced birds.
Whereas dominant white basically turns the black part of the feather white, largely leaving the gold parts alone, and only requires one copy to show itself.
Recessive white successfully switches off all color and requires two copies to show itself. A one copy recessive white bird will look it's natural (non white0 color pattern A possible exception to this might be a naturally black bird with dominant white that may also carry a single copy of recessive white. I believe a few breeds, or at least some lines of some breeds may carry both dominant and recessive white.
As to when to choose which laced birds are kept as potential breeders. When working with these projects, during the developmental phases, you will often have to deal with breeder birds that will not posses all the proper two copy sets of the required genes for whatever particular feather pattern you are striving for. As a result you will produce many, many, off marked chicks until you get the genetics dialed in better. Depending how many generations you are into a project, and to a large degree how good you are at it, ideally each successive generation brings you closer to your goal. But it is always dependent somewhat on the luck of the draw, each generation is a role of the dice that the proper combination of genes come together to get you closer to your goal. This is why hatching as many chicks as you can handle helps your odds of getting the very few keepers that will advance your program.
Early on, when they all look nothing like the bird you have in you head, and continuing during the entire process, place your major emphasis on proper Brahma type (build/size and temperament). It is very easy to become enamored with a bird that maybe has a better pattern, overlooking it's other major short comings . While you mat get the pattern down quicker using these birds, people often end up with just another pretty bird that has no more Brahma type than your average hatchery Wyandotte, or Rock. It is my personal feeling that you are much better off in the long run picking the superior typed bird over a possibly better marked bird even though it may delay your final reaching your goal a few years, as you are still way ahead of blowing up the project later bringing in outside blood to fix poor type.
It has been my experience that poor lacing will show itself early, and will not improve with maturation. The only benefit of waiting would be the possibility of a superior typed bird developing among the less than ideal laced birds.
Do this still look like VH? Her leg feathers look slightly longer, but not stiff and long like my D'uccles had.
Precious picture:
Precious picture:
Do this still look like VH? Her leg feathers look slightly longer, but not stiff and long like my D'uccles had.
Precious picture:
While technically not vulture hocks if the feathers are not stiff like wing feathers, I do not consider it a good sign.
When I was fighting vulture hocks during the development of my silver laced flock, birds like this would also crop up. I never was able to determine what exactly differentiated this soft form from the full blown stiff feather form. They popped up in the same breedings often enough to convince me that it was likely a lesser form of the same issue, possibly missing one genetic component from the stiff variety. I have read that there are at least three genetic components that determine leg/foot feathering, plus possibly other enhancer, or restrictors.
This would make sense when looking at the degree of foot feathering represented by different poultry breeds, From the various clean legged breeds, to the sparsely foot feathered Langshan, the moderately feathered Brahma, the profusely feathered Cochin, to the vulture hocked Sultans, or d'Uccles.
I avoided using any bird with puffy hocks for breeders.
Are they to the best I can describe reverse columbian patterns in brahmas? Solid black body with white or buff Necks and tails?
My first generation speckled brahma project is starting to come along. I have ten chicks on the ground, and another twenty due to hatch Friday. Any with speckling showing now I expect will go away with adult plummage.
newlinta
Chirping
Anyone have bantam brahma projects going?
Specifically incorporating blue somehow..?
Are there already blue/gold partridge, buff blue, blue columbian bantams?
(Brahmas/genetics are a new found interest)
Specifically incorporating blue somehow..?
Are there already blue/gold partridge, buff blue, blue columbian bantams?
(Brahmas/genetics are a new found interest)
Not that I can think of off hand.
Anyone working on or interested in Black Copper Brahmas? What would the genetics behind this be? Anyone know? Thanks in advance. 
Not to hijack your post, but I was wondering what you do to breed out the "tweener" form? I'm wanting single laced. Do I just breed back to the adult that has better lacing or get other genetics? Thank you!!
Single laced, double laced, penciled.
And a tweener. or at least one form of it.
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