Please help!! - Customized feed

[frenchblackcopper]

I just had our custom 20% protein ration made on Thursday.This is for our breeding flock. The next 500 pound batch will be increased to 22% protein.Here is what is in my own ration for 20% levels
252.5 lbs Yellow Corn (7.5% protein)
90.0 lbs of Soybean meal (48% protein)
50.0 lbs Black oil sunflower seeds (15% protein)
70.0 lbs Fish Meal (60% protein)
50.0 lbs Red Millet (11% protein)
50.0 lbs Milo (8% protein)
12.0 lbs Alfalfa Meal (17% protein)
4.0 lbs Molasses
12.5 lbs 2:1 Mineral Tech
12.0 lbs Kelp (6% protein)

I have been working with the head of nutrition for poultry feeds at Hubbard Feeds,,Dr Ed Bonnette.I also have consulted Twain Lockhart of Nutrena Feeds who also is in their poultry feed division.
Trefoil,,this is now the second reference I have read on the internet in the past two weeks of peafowl needing a 30% protein ration. Can you give me the source for this number? You refer to peachicks needing this,and the other person says all peafowl at all ages should be fed 30%. Surely this is not based on a dry matter intake ration? If so the cost would be astouding to put it lightly. Who has done a study showing this amount is needed? Their references please?

 

[Trefoil]

Quote: I got this from the mazuri site. And the reason I stated this was because any recipe I gave would be based on these figures and I wanted everyone to realize this . Also why I inquired to start with if they were just going to have a few peas to start.
Thanks for posting your ration. I personally ferment my peas feed, which helps some and I use brewers yeast rather than soybean meal. I can't recall the source, but I believe it was one of the university studies said that brewers yeast could replace something like 40% of common food stuffs, so I make sure to fall well under that and feel safe doing so. If you know something that contradicts, please let me know.

 

[Trefoil]

FBC I notice you add molasses to the mix,liquid? And is it added to bind the other ingredients or for its nutrients, or both? The only problem I see, and one of the reasons I ferment, is for the person only owning a few peas. Most mills will not mix less than 500#, which is too large a batch for 2-4 peas, so unless the owner hand mixes & or grinds, they may have problems getting the peas to eat the soybean meal and other fine ingredients. Which, of course is why most small # owners buy bagged feed.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Trefoil,,we was using CLE,,Concentrated liquid energy which is a super sticky soybean oil based fat but since it's now getting warmer we switched to using molasses. My peas still leaves the finer material at the bottom of the feed bowl,mostly the kelp,fish and alfalfa meal. We first crack the corn,then add the liquid molasses,then the fish meal,kelp,and alfalfa meal so it sticks to the larger pieces which the peas always goes for first.. Since my pen floors are now dirt,with little or no grass growing alfalfa is addded for vitamin B.
I'm questioning the high 30% protein levels for several reasons,,one is cost,one is the ability of peas to fully utilize that much protein,,and I'm also wondering how poor the rest of the ingredients are to call for this much protein,,,or what the protein is derived from( TDN Value)
Peas in very poor condition,or with poor feedstuff ingredients does not make sense,because if you have available sources of protein this high,lower valued ingredients should be plentiful. Peas will absorb all their bodies needs from a diet and expell the excess,so I'm wondering if about 8% of this protein just sees the poo hiway,out the rear end? I will call Dr Bonnet about this,to learn if a pea can even absorb this high a level.

 

[Trefoil]

Please let us know what you find out. I give my pea chicks and guinea keets gamebird starter, which is 28% protein ( blue seal), because when I started out with them that was what was recommended to me. When replying to South, I looked up mazuri, figuring it was a well thought of company and would give a base to start with. Also hoping everyone would chip in. I've never fed mazuri and have no idea of what they use, so it may have been a mistake. In feeding my peas I worry about missing a nutrient they need, so tend to add all sorts of "treats", some of which they like and get repeated and some they ignore. I realize there are amino acids in soybean meal that are necessary, but I have a hard time getting anything to eat it, I hadn't thought of putting liquid molasses in their feed. This thread is a great one, its been tried before but seems to get taken over by individuals only interested in selling their "secret" super ingredients. I have nothing against this except as soon as you are dealing with someone with something to sell, what they have to say becomes an advertisement and therefore suspect. I mix at the time of feeding anything not fermented, so the percent protein and nutrients to some extent vary. My base, which I ferment, and is the same for all my poultry is scratch and oil sunflower seeds, everything else is added depending on who its going to. Its very time consuming so its not something I can recommend.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Trefoil,,out of curiosity I called Dr Bonnette today. I told him I have found 2 instances of other peafowl breeders saying to feed 30% protein to birds as young as peachicks,up to breeding aged adults. Initially I got a chuckle out of him,,I asked what was funny,and his response was if you want to poop away that kind of money unnecessarily,,spend it on corn instead of more protein.
Since peachicks consumes very little feed it doesn't upset their digestive systems but it may cause more white alkaline in their poo. In older birds too high a protein levels is not good. The excess protein must be converted to carbohydrates and this overworks their kidneys. I then inquired about the cost of my feed compared to a bagged 22% gamebird ration they custom make,and he said the formula I posted earlier about my 20% homemade ration is superior to their 22% bagged. Also his recommendation is use a 20% ration as mine for breeding. When using corn and soybean meal in a mix,the optimum levels of Lysine and Methionine are found,two of the essential amino acids needed in peafowl diets.
In my ration,fish meal cost 88 cents a pound,,soybean meal costs 35 cents per pound. Upping your level to 30% would result in 80 more pounds total of both protein sources,,(about 50 more lbs. soybean meal- 30 more lbs. fish meal) or an additional $26.40 fish meal,$17.50 soybean meal,,$43.90 or $175.60 per ton. My above ration costed me $199.69 for a total of 603 lbs.
At my local farm store Nutrena 16% layer ration-50lb bags costs $13.13 a bag,or $157.56 for 600 lbs.--$42.13 LESS than my ration for the same amount of weight,or my ration costs $168.52 MORE per ton. But my ration is not crumbles, and it is 4% higher protein, contains fish meal instead of all soybean meal,milo and red millet that is not in crumbles.. It only would take about 8 IB peachicks extra to pay for this extra feed cost during breeding season. That is based on one hatchery price I found at charging over $40 per peachick now.

 

[Trefoil]

Thanks for the information. So you give your peachicks the same ration? Fish meal or kelp isn't locally available. Did Dr. Bonnette say anything about brewers yeast? To give exact figures, I will have to look up my receipts, but your bagged feed cost is about 2-$4 less/50# than it is here. And I live where soybeans,corn, and grains are grown. Black oil sunflower are $40/100, I sometimes give millet as a treat but don't use it in my feed. I only feed alfalfa meal in the winter as well.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

My peachicks goes on the 22% gamebird crumbles until fall mainly because I think they can digest it much better than seeds like milo and red millet.Plus we only crack the corn and sunflower seeds,so they are still to large for peachicks. I could have them grind the mix like flour tho I guess. BOSS is $36.50 per hundredweight here per my last batch. We order ahead the fish meal and kelp. Since no grass is growing in my breeding pens,Alf meal is addded for vitamin B. If you want to speak with Mr Bonnette, I can pm you his work number. Just let me know

 

[Trefoil]

Yes please.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Trefoil,,pm sent