Please help me decide which of these methods to use for RATS

[RonP]

Well, you are a gentle person and I will respect that.

With that in mind, here is a quote from the Humane Society:

"Lethal control
There are no truly humane ways to kill rodents, only methods that are less inhumane. Rats are killed with poisons, snap traps, glue boards, and maze-type traps that drown them. Based on what is known about these methods, the traditional snap trap, and perhaps the newer traps that use an electrical charge to stun and kill, seems to be the least inhumane. This doesn’t mean that rats won’t suffer in these traps—they almost certainly will.

With the use of lethal control, animals will suffer. So keep in mind, the need to control rats is a largely the result of lack of cleanliness in the immediate environment."


This said, seems your only choice is to make their habitat undesirable.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Mix 1 part plaster of paris with 1 part peanut butter.

Add a dash of vegetable oil if needed for consistency. Do not use water.

Roll mixture into marble sized balls.

Place in an area accessible to rats, but not much else.

As the balls disappear, so will your rats...

Use a maintenance program to avoid any future infestation.

No secondary kill worries, unless you have a large pile of dead rats in one place.

I tried something very similar; peanut butter and a quick set drywall compound (is that close to plaster of paris?)
Except I mixed it with a spoon and left it as chunks in a margarine container and I put the container inside one of my open kennel cages in our tractor shop so our dog couldn't access the peanut butter.
A bit disappeared but then they seemed to abandon it.

But we still have rats in that shop, you can hear them moving around.
We had to take our tractors out of it. The building has a cement floor but the yard was submerged in 3 feet of water in 2014 and the floor has now cracked in this shop. The rats have moved under the floor in these cracks. As soon as we're done harvest everything gets removed and cleaned and we're fixing the cracks.

One thing I didn't use is the oil. Maybe I could try this again.

 

[Little Fuzzy]

Wow I thought it only took 24 hours! That is horrible,I guess I just keep picturing the old Nazi films that show them consuming their strychnine to kill themselves and it works instantly, but I guess rats won't commit voluntary HAri Cari with strong poison. I've never used poison bait myself because of secondary poisoning problem. I have local Hawks that deserve to live too.

 

[myback40]

Wow I thought it only took 24 hours! That is horrible,I guess I just keep picturing the old Nazi films that show them consuming their strychnine to kill themselves and it works instantly, but I guess rats won't commit voluntary HAri Cari with strong poison. I've never used poison bait myself because of secondary poisoning problem. I have local Hawks that deserve to live too.

I wish it were so quick as well! I don't even know if strychnine is used anymore. The poison in rat bait is an anticoagulant of some kind, so they bleed to death of the course of some number of days.

We have a lot of owls here. I was just outside and heard them calling to each other. Wouldn't want to lose them - they're on my side with regard to rodents!

Sorry to hear about your flood and infestation. Sounds dreadful.

I hope my bucket trap works. Quickly.

 

[Howard E]

While you are working on a way to trap and kill some of these guys, may I suggest an additional step? If rats are in your run, most likely they are there for the feed, plus they probably have built tunnels beneath it.

If the infestation is that bad, perhaps consider capping the run surface with tight fitting concrete pavers (or even concrete) to create an impervious barrier for them. Then find a way to tightly and securely store your feed so they can't get at it, and perhaps use the bucket feeders or some such that tries to minimize waste on the ground. In other words, starve em out. Not easy to do and there will be some who hang around and you work on those as you can.

Interesting that when you read through the poultry husbandry books from 100 years ago, about the only predators and such they mention are rats, parasites like mites and lice, and hawks. Rats were the headliners. Their solution was to use concrete or rat proof wood floors in coops and to keep yard dogs and rat terriers around to be on the constant hunt for them outside of the coops and houses. Once upon a time, almost every farm had a dog or two running around outside and they were not pets. If your dog wasn't a good ratter, you got rid of him and got one that was.

 

[myback40]

While you are working on a way to trap and kill some of these guys, may I suggest an additional step? If rats are in your run, most likely they are there for the feed, plus they probably have built tunnels beneath it.

If the infestation is that bad, perhaps consider capping the run surface with tight fitting concrete pavers (or even concrete) to create an impervious barrier for them. Then find a way to tightly and securely store your feed so they can't get at it, and perhaps use the bucket feeders or some such that tries to minimize waste on the ground. In other words, starve em out. Not easy to do and there will be some who hang around and you work on those as you can.

Interesting that when you read through the poultry husbandry books from 100 years ago, about the only predators and such they mention are rats, parasites like mites and lice, and hawks. Rats were the headliners. Their solution was to use concrete or rat proof wood floors in coops and to keep yard dogs and rat terriers around to be on the constant hunt for them outside of the coops and houses. Once upon a time, almost every farm had a dog or two running around outside and they were not pets. If your dog wasn't a good ratter, you got rid of him and got one that was.

I like the idea of using pavers! Of course it's not possible for me to keep the area completely clean without nightly sweeping up, which would drive me crazy.

I bought a "rat proof" feeder a few months ago. This one: http://thecarpentershop.net/mediumplywoodchickenfeeder.html (The money we've spent on keeping these 8 chickens is sickening.) But they still beak out food all over the ground. The food bag is stored safely and has never been discovered or disturbed by the rats. Since a couple of my hens absolutely will not eat from that feeder (and really, who cares since it does leave a mess on the ground), I also have a hanging feeder with the little slots to make it harder for them to beak out food. Maybe I should take that one away an hour before dusk and see if the hens will "clean up" their own mess. Something to try, perhaps.

And yes, Howard, they have burrows all over the run, the garden, and even a few elsewhere on our 11 acres (I leave the latter to the owls and hawks). We don't have snakes here so I'm pretty sure those are rat holes. Our garden situation is a "chicken moat," as seen on YouTube. They've burrowed in several places I know of, and my response has been: 1) pouring various things down the hole (ammonia, vinegar, bleach) and/or going at the spot with shovel and pitch fork.

Your comments about the poultry books were fascinating. Thanks for that.


MY "MORNING #2" UPDATE: not a single corpse in the water, and my "test smear" of p-butter on the rim of the bucket is untouched as well. It's funny, because I usually see rats in my flashlight beam when I take my first trip of the day out to the yard to let my dog out. There were none. None yesterday either. I found a couple of rat turds in the run, but not the usual amount. I wouldn't put it past these smart creatures to sense the grim reaper nearby. It has turned chilly the past couple of nights (low 40sF instead of the 50sF we had been seeing). Not sure if that makes a difference.

One thing that the initial failure of my trap has done is that my heart is hardening a bit. The first night I kept waking up, picturing a sweet little Disney-like mouse struggling for hours to stay afloat. Then on Morning #1 I was so afraid to look in the bucket that I made my husband do it. Last night I slept quite peacefully and was only a little nervous about checking the trap, and actually felt some disappointment to see it empty. We've only lived in "the country" for 2 years. Perhaps in 2 more I won't care how much they suffer if I cannot even harvest a single tomato (as happened this summer - gr!).

This coming week I shall do my fall cleanup in the garden and really dig through the areas where I suspect to find burrows. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Howard E]

If you have rats living in tunnels under your run, that is almost the perfect setup for them. They can get food and water from the feeders and don't have far to go to get it. Just pop up and go to work, and inside an area protected from owls, dogs, cats, etc. to boot! Just about perfect.

So pavers, concrete or some type of impervious surface prevents them living under there and forces them out into the open where predators can get at them. If you also keep a wide buffer zone mowed down tight....the wider the better......there is nowhere for them to hide. They have to venture out in the open and run the predator gauntlet to get to your coop. Owls would be hanging in the trees like Christmas ornaments.

Not sure what cleanup you are talking about, but if I had pavers, I would still use an inch or two (not deep enough to tunnel in) of wood chip litter to keep the floor clean for the birds. Swap that out every month or so?

The 5 gallon bucket feeders with 90* pvc elbows are about as leak proof as anything I've seen. They really do seem to work to keep feed up off the floor/ground. A rat might get in one and still get feed, but they won't get much off the ground. Hung on a hook, wire or something, you can take that in at night when the birds have gone to roost. Take it back the next morning when you let them out or go out to collect eggs?

 

[myback40]

...

Not sure what cleanup you are talking about, but if I had pavers, I would still use an inch or two (not deep enough to tunnel in) of wood chip litter to keep the floor clean for the birds. Swap that out every month or so?

..

Thanks again, Howard. I look forward to exploring some of your suggestions. Here are some pictures of my set up, with the chicken moat. The run is covered with wire on top throughout, and with roofing over the corner where their food, water and coop entry are. The garden is inside the rectangle of chicken run area, and the human entrance goes over a tunnel where the chickens can pass through, so we can leave the gates open if we want. Deer won't jump a double fence and rabbits can't get in. But nothing to stop rats from eating our crops! The whole thing is about 55' x 30' I think. The fence has hardware cloth on the bottom portion, going 18" into the ground. So you can see how the rats would figure out to stay in the hawk-proof chicken are. (Pictures are a year old. Some improvements have been made and new feeder added.)

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

If you have rat runs all over your 11 acres the you have a huge problem. Pussy footing around with ineffective peanut butt drowning traps, while they might make you feel good about the death of the rat, are not enough to deal with a huge rat infestation. You must eliminate food sources and use an effective eradication program.

If you don't deal with the infestation it will spread to your neighbors, result in wasted feed and possible depradation on your fowl, along with the greater liklihood of disease and parasite transfer to your animals. I understand that you don't want to cause prolonged agony for the rats and the slim chance of poisoning of wildlife, but there comes a time when you have to draw the line.

 

[myback40]

If you have rat runs all over your 11 acres the you have a huge problem. Pussy footing around with ineffective peanut butt drowning traps, while they might make you feel good about the death of the rat, are not enough to deal with a huge rat infestation. You must eliminate food sources and use an effective eradication program.

If you don't deal with the infestation it will spread to your neighbors, result in wasted feed and possible depradation on your fowl, along with the greater liklihood of disease and parasite transfer to your animals. I understand that you don't want to cause prolonged agony for the rats and the slim chance of poisoning of wildlife, but there comes a time when you have to draw the line.

It's not like I see a hole every 10 yards, but I do find them here and there. Just as often, I find owl pellets under trees. The worst thing I could do in my opinion is to poison the very creatures that are helping us keep the rat population down.

I don't understand how you can think secondary poisoning is a "slim chance." It seems like a certainty to me. And besides the owls, there are dogs and cats who come across our property. As I have mentioned twice already in this thread, a neighbor's champion border collie, whom he needed to work his flock and who cost $2000, was killed down the road last summer by secondary poisoning (vet confirmed). My neighbor's cat hangs out in our yard on a regular basis and would probably love to find a "free meal." Indeed, our own precious dog may walk freely (i.e. not on a leash) around the property when we are out working because he will never go out of sight of us.

What do you think happens to all those poisoned little rat bodies? Out of sight, out of mind - and out of existence? I am not "pussy footing around" sir. I am being responsible and doing the best I can.