Prevention of COCCIDIOSIS and other poultry diseases in chicks~ ACV.

[Beekissed]

I'm so glad people are starting out with preventions that are long term and multipurpose instead of just reaching for the medicated feeds. The vinegar has so many good effects on the animal's health that it seems silly to not utilize it as a broad-spectrum approach to flock health, doesn't it? It's cheap..you can make more from your original purchase and it is good for humans and animals alike.

 

[Sgtfirstwife]

I am so glad I read about the vinegar. My husband is retiring from the military after 29 years and about a zillion moves. So along with our four beautiful children ages four to eleven year (only one daughter), five cats (one is pregnant) whoops two, almost three dogs, one lizard, one husband and 15 chickens, we are finally, FINALLY!!!! retiring. I am almost afraid to say it too loud for fear the Army will PCS US SOMEWHERE. so long story short(too late) we have returned to my home state NC bought a small piece of land with a rambling 200 year old farm house with four acres of land.

After having been everywhere, i wanted to raise my children in my home state in the country, without the hustle and bustle of a big city. Somewhere you go to the garden for vegetables and the hen house for eggs. Now I can make my eggs (or my chickens will) with less chemicals and stress. My husband and boys built our coop, my daughter and I will can and bake, then head to town to sell our goods.

Thank you for the wonderful tip. Now after serving our country through several deployments, wars and moves, I feel it is time for us to raise our children with a healthy dose of country living. Thank you so much for the tip and please pass along any more you may have.

 

[off-grid hen]

I'm always up for a science experiment! I hypothesize that since the lid isn't on too tight, that the building pressure will allow it to slowly push off til just the edge pops up and releases the pressure, rather than exploding... oh, heck. I'll go take it off.

 

[chickadoodles]

Thank you for posting and sharing! I am a newbie and have 2 wk old chics and I will start using it in their water and from now on!
Thank you so much!

 

[Beekissed]

Thank you, Beekissed. I've read vinegar and other types do what the 'myth' says, heard word-of-mouth, and also seems to be a similar 'myth' spread for human health.

From what I know (not to challenge you, just sharing) I've read it pulls more calcium into the bloodstream, even if more is absorbed, taking from the bones. From what you've responded, it seems the studies and findings I've read obviously have issues. Specific flock habitation and genetics can't be ruled out either.

As a side, would you feel that's a possible reason why the eggs you mention are so thick? Perhaps much calcium in the blood getting kicked out fast via egg production. If chickens can free-range or have large runs then they can of course get a lot of that calcium back through calcium-rich weeds. Ones in small runs or battery cages (bleh) might have more issues. Something I wouldn't mind seeing if there's a correlation to.

Cheers^^

Calcium stays in the blood stream unless one puts stress on the bones. When this happens, the body moves the calcium from the blood stream to the bones. This is a constant exchange of calcium going on. Weight bearing exercise is the surest way to insure that calcium stays in the bones..for humans and animals alike. This is why one can take all the calcium supplements they wish and it never corrects osteoporosis...because unless one exercises, the calcium passes right from the digestive system and into the blood stream..and from there out with the urine.

Chickens in confinement, particularly in cages are already calcium deficient in their bones due to no exercise.

Nothing leaches calcium out of bones more than non weight bearing and inactivity...this is why astronauts have always had problems with bone loss with extended stays in space. I think they've done things to correct that issue now, but it used to be a huge problem. Vinegar does not have any property that can "leach" calcium from the bone and deposit it into the blood stream, nor can it block calcium uptake.

Calcium acetate is a chemical compound which is the calcium salt of acetic acid. As a form of calcium, it can bind with phosphate in the diet and lower phosphorus levels in the blood but studies have shown it isn't significant enough to cause a phosphorus deficiency, but is helpful when a patient has high phosphorus levels that need to be lowered.

The vinegar cultures and those found in FF can increase dietary uptake of essential minerals and vitamins by increasing the total absorption area, through causing an increased length of the villi, and by increasing the nutrient exchange at the capillary level. These bacteria also produce protein as a byproduct of their metabolism.

I start all my chicks on ACV and now on FF and this is continued throughout their life. All my CX have thrived and been more mobile than I've seen from any other person raising them, bar none. No leg problems, no muscle problems, no heart problems. My CX foraged actively and all day over 2-3 acres clear up to butcher date of 10-11 wks and even roosted on low roosts.

I really don't care about studies much when I can see the results in the flock. If there were some hidden detriment to using the ACV, I'm sure it would have revealed itself by now but my ancient laying hens are still laying and my ancient mama is going line dancing and square dancing 3-4 times a week and can work circles around you and I, so I'm going to stick with the ACV for now.

 

[Blue]

I've been putting ACV in the water of my newly hatched chicks and have started adding it to my older chicks and adults water as well. So far, so good. I found the idea on another thread started by you Beekissed, but I can't remember which one. I'm very grateful for the advice, though, as I've dealt with cocci and just various health issues with some of my hatchery layer birds, and any natural thing I can do to minimize health problems is something I'm for.

 

[Beekissed]

Bee (can I call you that?), I want to thank you for this detailed response. It is well-thought out and I can see the kindness you've put into it. I've read a lot about calcium and nutrient intake, although in the end more for humans due to my own struggling health (I'm sure most of my vili are shot, from Gluten issues). I've always been told by doctors that too much vinegary foods cause acid that do what I said in the posts before. Now I think I'm starting to see how they're getting the misinformation, ACV is rather different from processed vinegary foods.

I strongly believe alkaline-blood is good for the body, the same with chickens, but I'm starting to understand ACV has properties that even if acidic, outweigh any negatives.

I'm rather skeptical about studies myself, I try to be as balanced as I can and not jump into fads or extreme diets for animals or my own health. Sadly, when time after time I read the same thing (even if it turns out to be myth or misinfo) I tend to think it's truthful. Thanks to your response, even if I can't personally verify your truth/experience, you've opened up a better way of thinking things out in this matter.

In the end, I am a big fan of cultured/fermented foods, due to all the beneficial bacteria. I will naturally be giving FFs to my quail this summer when they come in, and because of your post I will see just how much they can take (up to your 'doses'). In fact, I may see about doing this for my own body as well.

The note of your mother's current health is an inspiration; if the story of her can help me defy my genetics and potential poor diet (in comparison, with very limited ACV / week) then I'll be very grateful.

Thank you again for your response.

You are too kind!

I'm a nurse, so the medical field is a familiar battle ground for me....every month the AMA comes out with new studies on this or that that will negate the study results from the previous month. It's all in cycles, sort of like fashion...if you wait long enough, they keep rolling around and being tagged "it' again. First eggs are good, then they are bad, then good again but only if free range, but then they are bad again. This food will interact with this drug one month, but new studies will find it doesn't but it can link to cancer if taken while standing on your head in the middle of a field full of land mines.

See how this works?

Because of this constant flow of information and studies, I always look back for the truth...back to when folks were eating healthier foods and lived to be in their 100s on nothing but pork fat, whole milk, fermented foods and fresh eggs~no drugs except headache powders.

Because more people are turning back to the old ways of eating and getting healthier because of it, the medical field must discredit these old diets...they see the danger of even one dollar escaping their coffers. Raw honey is bad! Vinegar~bad! Eggs? BAD. Backyard chickens? Salmonella, shigella, e.coli!!!! Vegetarian diet? Won't get enough calcium for strong bones!!! (cows eat a vegan diet and have enormous, strong bones

) Must eat red meat for calcium and protein in your diet, not veggies...NO, not red meat, it can cause cancer!

I'm tired of studies and tired of the scare tactics of the pharmacy companies...they rule the medical field and all the advice therein, so when they say something is bad for you, you can bet it isn't. If you are healthy, they make no money.

My best advice to everyone is to throw away those drugs and get back to the basics....eat healthy foods straight from the farm, exercise more, go to bed early and wake up early, drink more water, turn off the TV and get some sunshine(throw out the sunscreen, it's another scare tactic). Same for chickens...eat good, drink good, exercise much and the health will follow. TV and sunscreen is optional for the chickens, but I don't recommend either one.

 

[ShanCarl1971]

Bee, your last post said EXACTLY what was on my mind!!! I am not in a medical profession, but feel that all these "studies" are greatly controlled by the drug market!!! If people realize that a more natural way of life will make them healthier, then the drug companies won't make as much money!!

I have not always had that outlook, but the older I get, the smarter my elders are!!!!! My grandparents hardly EVER went to a doctor...... they ate meat, "bad" fats, biscuits, bacon, eggs, you name it......but, the foods were natural (meat from their farm-raised animals, butter churned from their cows milk, eggs from their free-range chickens, etc, etc)....they didn't pump drugs or hormones into their animals.... and they worked hard...physically hard ....we as a society don't do that anymore!!

OK.....I'm done with the rant!!.... I truly feel that I should be living on a farm, but instead I'm stuck in the suburbs!! LOL But, at least I have my chickens and my ACV with the "Mother"!!! LOL

I have been away from the site for some time, but have recently renewed my passion for chickens (after having some frustrating problems that I just let discourage me for too long) , and have spent over a week just reading, reading, reading all the forum posts and articles. My absolute favorite subject has been the Fermented Food!!! I actually started two containers last night....one of starter crumbles and one of scratch grains....and can't wait to see how the chicks and hens take to them!! I also started adding the ACV to the drinking water yesterday, hoping to remedy some of the problems with my hens and prevent as much as possible with my new chicks. AND, I mixed some of my Braggs ACV with some regular, hoping the new "mother" will form in those. (I too am very frugal!! And, I lost my job a couple of months ago and can't get Unemp....so I have to be very careful)

To sum it up...your posts about fermenting and ACV may have just given me back the power I need to keep my renewed passion going strong!! Thank You SO much!!!!!!!

 

[Quailsong]

Thank you Beekissed for another thoughtful response.

I'd love to PM you with some more in-depth questions on health (esp humans) if you're okay with that? I've been doing okay getting my health back on track, but any tips from a wise-OT would be much appreciated.

As a side, I found a big jug of ACV (w/o) mother at a local big-chain last night. I nabbed it right up as I have a half bottle of ACV w/ mother and want to keep the fermentation going. I thought of you for sure. You've got my hopes up.

I know there's never a magic pill or quick fix for anything. Studies are as varied and change as often as the tide, often much more frequent and less predictable. Living healthy means truly living healthy. But sometimes it takes is a good strong nudge or swift kick in the pants to get down that road.

Thanks again, Bee.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Just did some checking on this just last week! How does that Acid help when you want an alkaline healthy body? So I looked into it... ha!

I'm not entirely sure what happens in a chicken's crop when ACV enters but I can assume it is relatable to human bodies. When ACV (weak acid) comes in contact with the stronger acidic digestive juices it ashes out or buffers into a more alkaline blood pH. The body is amazing. And along with ACV's pH is a whole complement of trace minerals and vitamins that in today's mass agricultural factory farming is lost because they only use fertilizers with limited nutrients and minerals....but that's a whole other can of worms.

When you have acid loving bacteria say in a UTI, wreaking havoc drinking cranberry juice or ACV doses helps buffer and alkalize the blood.

Any how. Love ACV. Love what the fermented food does for my chooks.