Rattling breathing open mouth!

[SusanPC]

Update: Lulu continued to get worse with her mobility issues. We took her outside several times daily for several days, but she would walk less and less and was having serious balance issues even when standing. She preferred to just "sit pretty" sometimes when sitting she would fall asleep and her head would flop over onto the ground. It was very sad. Although the worst of her rattling/gurgling went away, she was still breathing with a rasp, occasionally open-mouthed. I continued to tube feed her, but she would peck a few times at grass or scratch or mealworms. Never enough to be considered eating as she had. We made the decision to euthanize her and send her with blood from our other three adult chickens to the State poultry lab. From speaking with the vet over the phone, he suggested it was likely that she had Marek's disease and could also have MG or MS based on the flocks symptoms. Today, we found that the three remaining hens tested negative for MG or MS which I am so happy about. Their symptoms have all cleared up - sneezing, rattling, eye discharge. He could not find anything unusual from Lulu's necropsy. He was shocked that her body was perfectly healthy looking with how she presented and declined. He said this was the most thorough necropsy he has performed because he was convinced he would find something. Now we have authorized him to send her tissues for additional review to find out if they can find something on a cellular level. Otherwise, it will be a mystery as to what afflicted Lulu. I'm very sad that this happened, but I am so grateful to Casportpony - Kathy & just plain batty for your support and especially for the instruction and encouragement to treat her and tube-feed her. I am relieved that I don't have MG in my flock. I guess we will find out about Marek's after the tissues are reviewed. I now know that I can inject, tube-feed, and even euthanize a chicken if necessary. These are not things we want to think about when we start our flock, but are a fact of chicken-keeping. I also am now more alert regarding biosecurity issues and will be vigilant to protect my flock. Thanks again!

Susan

 

[justplainbatty]

So sorry you lost her You did the best you could, a lot, and more than a lot of folks would. You learned valuable skills to help your birds in the future so all is not lost. Lulu was a teacher bird. I'm sure her death won't be in vain. By posting here, we all learn from Lulu's case. Wishing the best for your remaining birds and will be looking for the results of the further testing of Lulu, may she rest in peace.

 

[SusanPC]

Serology showed that two of our three adult hens showed antibodies to Infectious Bronchitis. Therefore, we assume that is the culprit that went through our flock. All hens and the 8 chicks seem symptom free right now. Egg production for the hen that was sickest after Lulu has stopped for at least a week so far. The other hen that tested positive has lowered production and her egg quality is decreasing. I'm not sure why our broody mama hen didn't show evidence of exposure to IB. We have to assume everyone has it so we will be a closed flock. Not sure what I'm going to do with all these chicks - I have 9. I'll have to cull the roosters for sure as they were going to go to a friends farm. I've learned a hard lesson at the expense of my hens.

 

[justplainbatty]

Serology showed that two of our three adult hens showed antibodies to Infectious Bronchitis. Therefore, we assume that is the culprit that went through our flock. All hens and the 8 chicks seem symptom free right now. Egg production for the hen that was sickest after Lulu has stopped for at least a week so far. The other hen that tested positive has lowered production and her egg quality is decreasing. I'm not sure why our broody mama hen didn't show evidence of exposure to IB. We have to assume everyone has it so we will be a closed flock. Not sure what I'm going to do with all these chicks - I have 9. I'll have to cull the roosters for sure as they were going to go to a friends farm. I've learned a hard lesson at the expense of my hens.

Thank you for sharing everything. A closed flock is a good idea. Too bad for the roosters. Supportive care of your flock should minimize recurrent outbreaks. At least you know what you are dealing with now, thanks to Lulu. Don't beat yourself up, we all end up playing detective, researcher and veterinarian when we keep chickens. Hopefully, with the revived interest in back yard keeping, more vets will decide to include avian/chicken care into their practice. There is definitely, at least, a niche market for it.

 

[SusanPC]

Final Update for Lulu: We received the necropsy report from the State Vet. and my husband had a conversation with him about the Infectious Bronchitis. He stated that the IB was a very mild strain that is common for our area. He was not surprised that some hens/chicks showed symptoms and others did not and didn't seem concerned that I need to keep a closed flock. I'm still not giving the chicks to my co-worker because I wouldn't feel comfortable if her chickens became infected. I am considering giving some chicks to someone who doesn't own any chickens as a small flock with the information about the positive IB test.

The final result for Lulu was as follows:

"Thoracic Mass: Sections of the thoracic mass consist of multiple lobules of adipocytes (fat cells) in which are embedded dissecting linear tracts of cellular debris (necrosis) surrounding by thin zones of macrophages, epithelioid macrophages, and multinucleated giant cells. Faint-staining colonies of bacteria are observed in the cellular debris. Conclusion/Interpretation of Lab Findings: Granulomatous steatitis.

Comment: The mass described at necropsy is confirmed to be necrotic and inflamed adipose (fat) tissue. The bacteria
observed in the cellular debris are considered the cause of the necrosis and inflammation. The bacteria may
have entered this area either from a penetrating skin wound or possibly from a foreign body penetrating the
crop wall although no foreign body was observed in the sections examined. The size and location of the mass
likely interfered with breathing and possibly ambulation as proposed in the ne cropsy portion of this report.
There is no evidence of Marek's disease or any other disease causing agent."


Not sure if I can fully believe that this is what caused her death, but it does sound like she had a problem. She definitely had the IB symptoms in addition to whatever else was going on with her. I was worried about egg production, but my SLW had been laying every other day, my former Broody BO has given up on her chicks and started laying today, and my EE layed an egg today too. Maybe flock disruptions with Lulu being removed (head of the flock) and then disappearing with the Broody (second in command) and chicks turning into pullets caused some flock dynamic issues which resulted in unpredictable egg laying.

Anyway... it seems like after the drama of Lulu's illness, the flock is getting back to normal. Hopefully it will be a long time before I have to experience any other chicken illness, injury, or death, but with chickens it is something I now know from experience I will eventually deal with again. Thanks again ladies for all your support and help!

Susan

 

[justplainbatty]

Final Update for Lulu: We received the necropsy report from the State Vet. and my husband had a conversation with him about the Infectious Bronchitis. He stated that the IB was a very mild strain that is common for our area. He was not surprised that some hens/chicks showed symptoms and others did not and didn't seem concerned that I need to keep a closed flock. I'm still not giving the chicks to my co-worker because I wouldn't feel comfortable if her chickens became infected. I am considering giving some chicks to someone who doesn't own any chickens as a small flock with the information about the positive IB test.

The final result for Lulu was as follows:

"Thoracic Mass: Sections of the thoracic mass consist of multiple lobules of adipocytes (fat cells) in which are embedded dissecting linear tracts of cellular debris (necrosis) surrounding by thin zones of macrophages, epithelioid macrophages, and multinucleated giant cells. Faint-staining colonies of bacteria are observed in the cellular debris. Conclusion/Interpretation of Lab Findings: Granulomatous steatitis.

Comment: The mass described at necropsy is confirmed to be necrotic and inflamed adipose (fat) tissue. The bacteria
observed in the cellular debris are considered the cause of the necrosis and inflammation. The bacteria may
have entered this area either from a penetrating skin wound or possibly from a foreign body penetrating the
crop wall although no foreign body was observed in the sections examined. The size and location of the mass
likely interfered with breathing and possibly ambulation as proposed in the ne cropsy portion of this report.
There is no evidence of Marek's disease or any other disease causing agent."


Not sure if I can fully believe that this is what caused her death, but it does sound like she had a problem. She definitely had the IB symptoms in addition to whatever else was going on with her. I was worried about egg production, but my SLW had been laying every other day, my former Broody BO has given up on her chicks and started laying today, and my EE layed an egg today too. Maybe flock disruptions with Lulu being removed (head of the flock) and then disappearing with the Broody (second in command) and chicks turning into pullets caused some flock dynamic issues which resulted in unpredictable egg laying.

Anyway... it seems like after the drama of Lulu's illness, the flock is getting back to normal. Hopefully it will be a long time before I have to experience any other chicken illness, injury, or death, but with chickens it is something I now know from experience I will eventually deal with again. Thanks again ladies for all your support and help!

Susan

Thank you (and Lulu) for sharing all of this with us. Best wishes to you and the rest of your flock!

 

[Laurel Chicks]

I had my hen doing this 3-4 days ago, and she was in the hottest spot of the coop. I thought maybe she sat too long with the intent to lay an egg (outside her hen box), and got overheated. Brought her out into the main portion of the coop, offered her water, and blocked her from going back in. By evening she was perfectly fine. I guess I need to work on extra ventilation in those smaller areas where they can get into.