Recipe Check please!

[jetchaos]

Hey, working on a DIY feed recipe (further to my post yesterday about bring gluten-free!). Have used calculators etc where I can and tried to substitute appropriately. If anyone could give me feedback on this mix, I would be very appreciative!

40% buckwheat
20% corn
20% lentils
10% soybeans
7% kelp granules
3% brewer's yeast

Any improvements/supplements I could give to this diet would be much appreciated, as well as criticisms! The calculator I used put that at 16% protein and 4% fat, but numbers mean nothing if the rest of the vitamins etc are missing, and if the hens will even eat it!

 

[Morrigan]

My general sense is that you are going to lacking in some key amino acids, Methionine for sure and possibly some others. The soy, kelp and yeast are helpful, but I doubt they are sufficient. I don't have the knowledge to give you are more precise breakdown, unfortunately.

When I looked into making my own chicken food, I came to the conclusion that I either needed to add a nutritional balancer like Fertrell, or offer some type of animal protein -- meat scraps, fish, etc. on a regular basis.

 

[jetchaos]

My general sense is that you are going to lacking in some key amino acids, Methionine for sure and possibly some others. The soy, kelp and yeast are helpful, but I doubt they are sufficient. I don't have the knowledge to give you are more precise breakdown, unfortunately.

When I looked into making my own chicken food, I came to the conclusion that I either needed to add a nutritional balancer like Fertrell, or offer some type of animal protein -- meat scraps, fish, etc. on a regular basis.

Thank you for this. I knew I probably needed to add something, but wasn't sure! It's guided me in the right direction.
Had a quick Google, and found this:

https://www.aviform.co.uk/total-hea...cG3ZyJujLLnfrdFoyrlNSFBNWewdAPggaAkGBEALw_wcB

I think that has the same effect as your nutritional balancer that you suggested? Unfortunately in the UK we can't feed scraps, and it's a minefield when it comes to animal protein. (I may try live mealworms at some point, but not brave enough to have a mealworm farm yet lol).

 

[Morrigan]

The other question I had, was to how you calculated the protein levels. I'm not familiar with feeding buckwheat, but I didn't know it was high in protein. Corn, I know is low, and I would double check that you have enough soy and lentils to hit your numbers.

 

[Sally PB]

@U_Stormcrow... input, please? And thank you.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hey, working on a DIY feed recipe (further to my post yesterday about bring gluten-free!). Have used calculators etc where I can and tried to substitute appropriately. If anyone could give me feedback on this mix, I would be very appreciative!

40% buckwheat
20% corn
20% lentils
10% soybeans
7% kelp granules
3% brewer's yeast

Any improvements/supplements I could give to this diet would be much appreciated, as well as criticisms! The calculator I used put that at 16% protein and 4% fat, but numbers mean nothing if the rest of the vitamins etc are missing, and if the hens will even eat it!

That's a better calculator than most. I get similar numbers using dehulled heat treated soybeans. In the shell, fiber is much higher. Can only speak generally as to the rest, so here goes.

Its adequate as a layer ration in terms of Methionine (your soybeans and yeast are doing all the work here), the Lysine levels are very good, Threonine is also good (lentils, soybeans, yeast). Your Tryp levels are low - Buckwheat doesn't have a lot, corn doesn't have a lot, seaweeds don't tend to have much either. Lentils are at target - not bad, but not so good as to make up for all the buckwheat, corn, and kelp - once again, the soybeans and the yeast are doing all the work.

I know its common to throw kelp meal at things for the vitamins and micro minerals, but you need to watch the salt content. Also, there's a lot of variations in kelp, hopefully your source has a nutritional label?

The brewers yeast should provide good source of B Vitamins (except B12), some other stuff like copper, selenium potassium, the kelp a bunch of (potentially highly variable) minerals. Soybeans are good for several of the Bs, K, lousy source of A, some metals and minerals. Overall, while I don't have MKE numbers for all those ingredients for chicken diets, what I do have suggests you are in the right range, if on the high side. My calculator doesn't go there, but I'm not seeing any good sources of vitamin A or D, not much C.

I'd call that a good start, but not there yet.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

That's a better calculator than most. I get similar numbers using dehulled heat treated soybeans. In the shell, fiber is much higher. Can only speak generally as to the rest, so here goes.

Its adequate as a layer ration in terms of Methionine (your soybeans and yeast are doing all the work here), the Lysine levels are very good, Threonine is also good (lentils, soybeans, yeast). Your Tryp levels are low - Buckwheat doesn't have a lot, corn doesn't have a lot, seaweeds don't tend to have much either. Lentils are at target - not bad, but not so good as to make up for all the buckwheat, corn, and kelp - once again, the soybeans and the yeast are doing all the work.

I know its common to throw kelp meal at things for the vitamins and micro minerals, but you need to watch the salt content. Also, there's a lot of variations in kelp, hopefully your source has a nutritional label?

The brewers yeast should provide good source of B Vitamins (except B12), some other stuff like copper, selenium potassium, the kelp a bunch of (potentially highly variable) minerals. Soybeans are good for several of the Bs, K, lousy source of A, some metals and minerals. Overall, while I don't have MKE numbers for all those ingredients for chicken diets, what I do have suggests you are in the right range, if on the high side. My calculator doesn't go there, but I'm not seeing any good sources of vitamin A or D, not much C.

I'd call that a good start, but not there yet.

oh, and suggestions...

You could pull half the lentils and sub in cow peas (black eyed peas, purple hull peas, etc) - your tannins go up a bit (that's why not more than 10%), but in spite of the marginally lower crude protein, the cow peas provide more Methionine and more Tryptophan, pound per pound (not a lot more, but we are nibbling at margins here).

Question, why is corn in there? Not that I have anything against corn, just curious why you chose to include it? Understanding that, I may be able to suggest substitutions.

Same query on why gluten free?

 

[Morrigan]

Its adequate as a layer ration in terms of Methionine (your soybeans and yeast are doing all the work here),

I was intrigued by this comment, as I had a different understanding, and it one of the factors that led me to abandon an attempt to make my own feed. What sources are you looking at? This is a case where I would love to be proved wrong and don't want to unfairly discourage people from making homemade feed.

Here, for example, is what I am looking at:

"Conventional poultry diets are typically corn and soybean meal based. Grains are typically low in lysine, and legumes (e.g., soybeans) are low in methionine. With this combination of feed ingredients, methionine is typically the first limiting amino acid."

Source: https://eorganic.org/node/7902

When I did a search for brewers yeast and methionine I saw the following:

. amino acid analysis of dried brewing yeast indicates that yeast should be a source of good-quality protein ( Table 2). Brewing dried yeast contained a high amount of lysine (4.5%), threonine (2.1%), arginine (2.7%), but a low amount of methionine (0.7%). ...

Source: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...text=Brewing dried yeast contained a,(0.7%). ...

Maybe the "low amount of methionine .7%" is still a high level for poultry? Maybe this is where I'm getting it wrong.

I'll also note that I started checking feed tags to see what Met levels they had, one thing I saw over and over again was DL-Methionine as an additive, despite soymeal being the #2 ingredient. At that point, I figured if I was buying bags of soymeal, plus needing an additive like Fertrell's, I might as well keep buying the Flock Raiser.

 

[Morrigan]

Or, perhaps less Met. is required for laying rations vs. growing chicks or broilers?

I tend to buy all-flock types feeds, so maybe I'm hung up on that.

Apologies to the OP, didn't mean to hijack the thread!

 

[jetchaos]

Question, why is corn in there? Not that I have anything against corn, just curious why you chose to include it? Understanding that, I may be able to suggest substitutions.

Same query on why gluten free?

Thank you for all of your comments - food for thought! Honestly, there's corn there because I'm trying to make it gluten free and I wasn't very sure of any other alternatives - it's something I'd be willing to swap out as I know it can be more of a treat food!

And the gluten free results from my wife and I having Coeliac disease - not in terms of the eggs etc, but more the handling of the food in the first place. My wife can have quite severe reactions; example being we had to switch out our dog food to a gluten free one, despite the fact we were being careful with handling it etc. It's not something we want even remotely near us!