Reintegration by supervised visits ?

[TalkALittle]

You are free to disagree with me, but given the degree to which you anthropmorphize your birds, I would hypothesize that your interpretation of their behavior may not be accurate.

Perhaps rather than try to introduce Isabella back to the flock, it would be easier to reintroduce the rest of the flock to Isabella one at a time so she only has to negotiate one social interaction at a time. Maybe Stanford first and then Victoria, followed by the others one at a time over the course of the day.

 

[Sydney Acres]

@Sydney Acres I have only this one experience with Penny's reintegration and only with chickens. But would think the challenge is the same for turkeys.

If they are always kept apart, they will always fight when together. The traditional look but don't touch separation does help to defuse the aggression and would suggest you figure a way to place her where they can see each other but not be able to fight. Once the aggression around the cage defuses, then begin supervised visits with the least aggressive flock mates. The water blast works and doesn't harm them.

I have posted my battle with the methods that worked for me, link below. Hope this helps:

Reintegrating a Recovered Hen to a Small Flock:

Currently I am keeping them on opposite sides of a welded wire fence that is overlaid with 1/2 inch hardware cloth, so they can see each other but not touch. Also, she is getting regularly supervised visits with Stanford, who is dominant but only pecks Isabella gently to effectively stop her from acting in a threatening manner, and Camilla who is submissive, and DeLorean, a huge tom who is not threatened by Isabella's posturing and would never attack a hen. Isabella is starting to learn that it is specific birds that are "threats," not the whole world, so she is no longer raging randomly at everything, and is now able to be comforted by my husband and myself when she is upset. She instantly stopped displaying and aggressively trilling this morning when I walked up to her and picked her up, and later this morning she even stopped her display and came to me when called. That is a huge improvement over yesterday, as she is clearly not as focused on aggression. I am thinking of continuing like this for another several days to a week, then using the water spray on the other birds but not on Isabella. If the other birds are immediately stopped from responding to Isabella's posturing and threats, then I'm hoping she'll stop feeling defensive and will stop instigating the whole process. It's kind of a vicious circle, and I'm hoping this is a good plan to stop it, as I think squirting Isabella will escalate her defensiveness.

What type of spray bottle did you use, and how close did you need to be to use it accurately?

 

[Sydney Acres]

You are free to disagree with me, but given the degree to which you anthropmorphize your birds, I would hypothesize that your interpretation of their behavior may not be accurate.

Perhaps rather than try to introduce Isabella back to the flock, it would be easier to reintroduce the rest of the flock to Isabella one at a time so she only has to negotiate one social interaction at a time. Maybe Stanford first and then Victoria, followed by the others one at a time over the course of the day.

It is true that I do anthropomorphize my birds, but always in the context of them being birds -- each species with its own unique social needs, bird-specific behaviors, and environmental requirements. There are many parallels between animal behaviors and child behaviors, and there are many differences. I am not naively thinking that she is a human child. But I do have tremendous empathy for her unique situation, and try to provide a social structure and environment where she can be happy. The fact that she is seen engaging in normal bird behaviors, chooses to stay in her yard when she could easily fly out, has long-standing relationships with flockmates that are peaceful and mutually beneficial, and shows excited vocalizations and movements when she interacts with her flockmates and her human caretakers is not behavior that one could logical misinterpret. The most logical conclusion is that she is happy and that all her needs are being met. The fact that I clearly love her and anthropomorphize her does not negate that conclusion.

I agree that reintroducing her to the flock members one at a time is the best option, and I have already started that process. However, Victoria will have to be last. Victoria is the one that is responding most aggressively to Isabella's defensive actions, and has shown the least willingness to back away once provoked. Without Victoria, the problem would already be resolved. I would consider culling Victoria if the relationship between Victoria and Isabella cannot be restored, as that bond is the only reason that Victoria has been kept.

 

[TalkALittle]

Whoops. Meant Camilla.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Whoops. Meant Camilla.

Oh yes, Camilla is definitely an easier reintroduction.

 

[sunflour]

Currently I am keeping them on opposite sides of a welded wire fence that is overlaid with 1/2 inch hardware cloth, so they can see each other but not touch. Also, she is getting regularly supervised visits with Stanford, who is dominant but only pecks Isabella gently to effectively stop her from acting in a threatening manner, and Camilla who is submissive, and DeLorean, a huge tom who is not threatened by Isabella's posturing and would never attack a hen. Isabella is starting to learn that it is specific birds that are "threats," not the whole world, so she is no longer raging randomly at everything, and is now able to be comforted by my husband and myself when she is upset. She instantly stopped displaying and aggressively trilling this morning when I walked up to her and picked her up, and later this morning she even stopped her display and came to me when called. That is a huge improvement over yesterday, as she is clearly not as focused on aggression. I am thinking of continuing like this for another several days to a week, then using the water spray on the other birds but not on Isabella. If the other birds are immediately stopped from responding to Isabella's posturing and threats, then I'm hoping she'll stop feeling defensive and will stop instigating the whole process. It's kind of a vicious circle, and I'm hoping this is a good plan to stop it, as I think squirting Isabella will escalate her defensiveness.

What type of spray bottle did you use, and how close did you need to be to use it accurately?

Sounds like you are off to a good start.

The spray bottle is just a generic one - holds 32 oz of water - it has an adjustable nozzle for jet stream, coarse spray and fine mist and can spray upside down. I use the jet stream and it will spray about 10 feet. I think DH got it at one of the chain grocery stores.

I would only spray the others who are aggressive and not the "leading lady". Head shots are the most effective.

Be prepared that it may take a lot longer than you think - I am certain my flocks aggression took over 6 weeks to improve enough for me to start moving further away from Penny to observe.


Penny was always bottom of the flock, but with early attempts at socializing she was just as aggressive in response to the attacks. As the situation began to diffuse, she returned to her old lifelong habits of retreat.

Don't give up yet.

But if she is aggressive and they are aggressive, you may want to also have a can of rocks or marbles. Shaking it caused everyone in my flock to stop what they were doing and stand still.

 

[Mutt Farm]

Well Howdy! sunflour, aart, blooie, two crows, north fl chick! don't run off after sunflour's success. My turn in the barrel! I may need some help! I only brought a squirt bottle to this party!
Integrating 2 RIR's to my established flock of 15.
RIR;s and my hens are very similar ages. 7-9 mos. No roos. Orpingtons, Marans, Wyandottes EE's Austraorps, Deleware. I have them in aarts look but don't touch for now.
I hadn't planned to add birds and sure didn't want to disrupt my flock, but things happen. I broke some husbandry rules too regarding quarantine.

Backstory to explain my poor decisions so far: Pops, 83, gave his farm to his son and moved in here a couple years back. I love him to the moon and back and would never hurt his feelings. Knows everything chicken, or any other feathered critter, old school, hard core though.
Son got sweet new GF that wanted chickens. They ordered 10 beautiful vaccinated pullets various breeds in Mar-Apr. Closed flock, they live in the boonies. Newness wore off, they want less chickens. Pops comes home with 2 beautiful RIR's as a gift! They are gorgeous btw.
I set up a Q pen, just open covered, no coop. I planned to Q them for 30 days. That hurt his feelings terribly. "Do you think I would bring home sick chickens"? Rut Ro...
Think quick! "Nope, don't want these beautiful hens stressed!" Next day weather change, wind blowing, raining, night time temp went from 60 to 39. I felt awful.
Yesterday I set up the LBDT inside the run.
Coop is a 12X16 stall with ample roost space. Run is 16X24.
So... after my long story, how long should I leave the dividers up?
Should I let the RIR's get a feel for the coop and run while my girls are out free ranging?
I wonder about where to finally let them interact. If I let them out to forage with my 15 and things go badly, the new girls won't yet know where "home" "coop" and safe spot is. If I confine them to the coop and run, it's much more restricted space.
Thoughts?

 

[sunflour]

Well Howdy! sunflour, aart, blooie, two crows, north fl chick! don't run off after sunflour's success. My turn in the barrel! I may need some help! I only brought a squirt bottle to this party!
Integrating 2 RIR's to my established flock of 15.
RIR;s and my hens are very similar ages. 7-9 mos. No roos. Orpingtons, Marans, Wyandottes EE's Austraorps, Deleware. I have them in aarts look but don't touch for now.
I hadn't planned to add birds and sure didn't want to disrupt my flock, but things happen. I broke some husbandry rules too regarding quarantine.

Backstory to explain my poor decisions so far: Pops, 83, gave his farm to his son and moved in here a couple years back. I love him to the moon and back and would never hurt his feelings. Knows everything chicken, or any other feathered critter, old school, hard core though.
Son got sweet new GF that wanted chickens. They ordered 10 beautiful vaccinated pullets various breeds in Mar-Apr. Closed flock, they live in the boonies. Newness wore off, they want less chickens. Pops comes home with 2 beautiful RIR's as a gift! They are gorgeous btw.
I set up a Q pen, just open covered, no coop. I planned to Q them for 30 days. That hurt his feelings terribly. "Do you think I would bring home sick chickens"? Rut Ro...
Think quick! "Nope, don't want these beautiful hens stressed!" Next day weather change, wind blowing, raining, night time temp went from 60 to 39. I felt awful.
Yesterday I set up the LBDT inside the run.
Coop is a 12X16 stall with ample roost space. Run is 16X24.
So... after my long story, how long should I leave the dividers up?
Should I let the RIR's get a feel for the coop and run while my girls are out free ranging?
I wonder about where to finally let them interact. If I let them out to forage with my 15 and things go badly, the new girls won't yet know where "home" "coop" and safe spot is. If I confine them to the coop and run, it's much more restricted space.
Thoughts?

Could you post pic of your set up with the pen you are using?

I used "make shift" removable shelter on Penny's cage so she would have protection from the elements. And a spot to sleep where she felt safe. Took it off in the morning, left the prevalent wind/rain side up most of the time.

IMO keep them separated but let them out of confinement with close supervision and place yourself between any potential aggressor until you are not seeing aggression. Once that defuses, then try letting them out with the friendliest of you flock. Letting the others free range takes them out of the picture for this.


The blaster is effective when there is only one aggressor present, but if there are multiples, then the marbles should be ready.
Good luck, patience is the main ingredient in this recipe.

 

[aart]

........
So... after my long story, how long should I leave the dividers up?
Should I let the RIR's get a feel for the coop and run while my girls are out free ranging?
I wonder about where to finally let them interact. If I let them out to forage with my 15 and things go badly, the new girls won't yet know where "home" "coop" and safe spot is. If I confine them to the coop and run, it's much more restricted space.
Thoughts?

I'd leave them separated for at least a week...maybe longer...in their own area.
How big is it, easy for you to access to feed etc?

Yes, let them check out coop and run when other birds are ranging...I assume other birds will be locked out of coop and run?

Set up hiding places in coop and run, extra feed/water, etc.
Then let them range together.

If you see excessive harassment, try the adding one nice existing bird to confinement area...then another, or a different one.
The mix and match, shake em up method.

BTW... 'look and don't touch' is not mine per say.

 

[Blooie]

BTW... 'look and don't touch' is not mine per say.

Hahahaha...it is now! Mama Heating Pad wasn't mine exactly either, but it grew a life of it's own somehow!