Rock Stars!

[cafrhe]

I am looking for a little information about our recent cross between a Barred Rock roo and our 3 Red Star hens. We hatched 8 chicks yesterday. 4 are black with head spots and some yellow/white on their backs and 4 are yellow. I was actually expecting all chicks to be similar. And I was actually expecting the chicks to be barred when they feather out.

I read a bit about RS and see that the hen in those mixes is probably white...so is it correct that my yellow chicks will be white? I know that there should be no sex linking--so is it equally feasible that I will have boys and girls from either color?

We did take pictures of wing feathers but not sure if that will help with sexing after reading some about wing feather sexing.

I saw one pic of similar chicks from a BR roo over a RIR hen, but couldnt find adult pics of those chicks. Anyone have ideas on what I am going to get?

Thanks!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

You are correct that they will not be sexed according to color. You are also correct that it is not likely you will be able to feather sex as you need a fast feathering father over a slow feathering mother to be able to feather sex. While barring and faster feathering often are linked, and might be in your barred roo, they don't have to be such.

Color sex linking only occurs the first generation of the Red Sex Links which is a hybrid of a red based roo over a silver based female (typically a RIR or NH roo over a White Rock or Delaware or Silver Wyandotte hen). You didn't, but if you had bred an RSL roo over an RSL hen, the chicks would have come out looking pretty much like a RSL for both genders. (Some unscrupulous people try to sell 2nd generation RSL roo's as the real deal.)

Also, ignoring the hen was a hybrid, so she will have more white possibilities in her genetics depending upon the hen the hatchery used to get their RSL, she would have been possibly somewhat "red based," but you used the roo as the barred parent, and that will not promote any kind of sex linking.

Black Stars are RIR/NH roo (a red based roo) over a Barred Rock hen (barred/cuckoo hen)...in those crossings the girl chicks are all black with no head dot representing no barring, and the roo chicks are black with a head dot representing barring. BSL hens are mostly black with some (or a lot) of red bleed through, usually at the hackles and often on the chest. The male BSL's are barred and look similar to a BR rooster. And again that is only for the first generation as BSL bred to BSL will further the genetic possibilities depending upon the parent stock used.

Of 8 chicks, you got 4 black barred and 4 white/yellow....pretty much a Punnet square turn out which should indicate the genetics of your parents (and I'm not quite there yet to tell you exactly what). If I understand this correctly, barring is normally dominant, however you didn't get all barred birds so that indicates your rooster does not have 2 barred genes but only 1 (????) *see edit below*, and your RSL, while red, because of white trim has a lot of white genetics in the background (and I get a bit confused as to whether dominant white or recessive)....I'm guessing recessive white as the chicks were not all white...Soooooo..... then we go to the Punnet square possibilities with red/white or barred/non-barred, knowing white can cover barring.

The black chicks will be barred, possibly with some red bleed through (?), but I think they will just look like Barred Rocks, with some off barring. I suspicion the yellow chicks will come in mostly white, but usually in my experience when they mature will have some red bleed through here and there, and may even have some red barring show through...or not as the dominant white may cover that up.

I am only beginning to get my head around the feather genetics, and white is still a challenge to me, so I am sure there are those who will correct my errors...but I think I have the general gist correct. (Hopefully! If not, I will learn along with you.)

Bottomline...you have some AWESOME backyard mixes that should produce some really great layers. I love my barnyard mixes as they grow fast and have hybrid vigor.

Lady of McCamley

EDITED for content and to add.

This is essentially what you got (an easier color calculator) put male to Barred/Cuckoo, and scroll down to put female White Trimmed Red:
http://www.breedbook.org/?action=geneticscalculator&tab=CHICKEN

The anticipated outcome is 4 barred and 4 white (which I think might have some red blush here and there as my mixed whites from RSL always tend to)...but it shows that barred is dominant like I originally thought and that the RSL does not carry dominant white (since it is a red bird with white trim) but when the white does exhibit, it hides the barring so you have a barred bird on white so it shows white.

 

[cafrhe]

Thanks for the analysis and link. Pretty cool. I really thought we would get all barred, but did forget that the RSs have white in them.

We picked this cross (we have rir--or production reds depending whose opinion I listen to!, BO, EEs and the RS) because we love the RS productivity, but feel the egg size is just not sustainable. They are also lighter than the rest of my girls and while curious, smart and great foragers, perhaps a little weaker in health than the others. Hoping to see the good attributes with a smaller egg and no bumble foot (only my RS got this this winter)

 

[BantamLover21]

You are correct that they will not be sexed according to color. You are also correct that it is not likely you will be able to feather sex as you need a fast feathering father over a slow feathering mother to be able to feather sex. While barring and faster feathering often are linked, and might be in your barred roo, they don't have to be such.

Color sex linking only occurs the first generation of the Red Sex Links which is a hybrid of a red based roo over a silver based female (typically a RIR or NH roo over a White Rock or Delaware or Silver Wyandotte hen). You didn't, but if you had bred an RSL roo over an RSL hen, the chicks would have come out looking pretty much like a RSL for both genders. (Some unscrupulous people try to sell 2nd generation RSL roo's as the real deal.)

Also, ignoring the hen was a hybrid, so she will have more white possibilities in her genetics depending upon the hen the hatchery used to get their RSL, she would have been possibly somewhat "red based," but you used the roo as the barred parent, and that will not promote any kind of sex linking.

Black Stars are RIR/NH roo (a red based roo) over a Barred Rock hen (barred/cuckoo hen)...in those crossings the girl chicks are all black with no head dot representing no barring, and the roo chicks are black with a head dot representing barring. BSL hens are mostly black with some (or a lot) of red bleed through, usually at the hackles and often on the chest. The male BSL's are barred and look similar to a BR rooster. And again that is only for the first generation as BSL bred to BSL will further the genetic possibilities depending upon the parent stock used.

Of 8 chicks, you got 4 black barred and 4 white/yellow....pretty much a Punnet square turn out which should indicate the genetics of your parents (and I'm not quite there yet to tell you exactly what). If I understand this correctly, barring is normally dominant, however you didn't get all barred birds so that indicates your rooster does not have 2 barred genes but only 1 (????) *see edit below*, and your RSL, while red, because of white trim has a lot of white genetics in the background (and I get a bit confused as to whether dominant white or recessive)....I'm guessing recessive white as the chicks were not all white...Soooooo..... then we go to the Punnet square possibilities with red/white or barred/non-barred, knowing white can cover barring.

The black chicks will be barred, possibly with some red bleed through (?), but I think they will just look like Barred Rocks, with some off barring. I suspicion the yellow chicks will come in mostly white, but usually in my experience when they mature will have some red bleed through here and there, and may even have some red barring show through...or not as the dominant white may cover that up.

I am only beginning to get my head around the feather genetics, and white is still a challenge to me, so I am sure there are those who will correct my errors...but I think I have the general gist correct. (Hopefully! If not, I will learn along with you.)

Bottomline...you have some AWESOME backyard mixes that should produce some really great layers. I love my barnyard mixes as they grow fast and have hybrid vigor.

Lady of McCamley

EDITED for content and to add.

This is essentially what you got (an easier color calculator) put male to Barred/Cuckoo, and scroll down to put female White Trimmed Red:
http://www.breedbook.org/?action=geneticscalculator&tab=CHICKEN

The anticipated outcome is 4 barred and 4 white (which I think might have some red blush here and there as my mixed whites from RSL always tend to)...but it shows that barred is dominant like I originally thought and that the RSL does not carry dominant white (since it is a red bird with white trim) but when the white does exhibit, it hides the barring so you have a barred bird on white so it shows white.

x2 on this.

 

[cafrhe]

So...Should a barred rock roo have double barring? I know with Rhodebar roos you can tell which is double barred and which is single and, I think, the double barred is better for breeding.

I am not easily finding the barred rock genetics....Also seeing that my boy has tight bars but other good examples of the breed seem even tighter and a little darker than my guy (he is in full sun here, so he is slightly darker, but not much).

 

[donrae]

Your rooster looks double barred. I believe all of your chicks are genetically barred, you just can't see the barring on the white they got from the sex link momma. As they mature you may see "ghost barring", depending on the light bird's coloring.

I hatched out splash sex links, the sex link part was useless cause I couldn't see the white head spot. As they've matured I can see faint barring on the cockerels, mostly in the hackle feathers. So the barring is there, I just couldn't see it against the base color.

 

[cafrhe]

Thanks donrae. It will be interesting to see how the they all look feathered out, especially the white ones.

He did look double barred to me, but not as finely barred as pics of 'real' BPRs. My roo was given to me and is supposed to be pure, but I dont really know where he comes from originally. I know the farm and will stop by when they have chicks again to see if they breed or get them from hatcheries.

 

[donrae]

A single barred rooster usually has a muddy look to the barring, is darker overall and often has leakage of red, depending on what he was mixed with. Your guy isn't as crisply barred as the hypnotic heritage birds, but he's got decent barring for a hatchery bird.

I'd love to see close up pics of those white chicks after they feather out to see if I'm correct. I've seen pics on here of ghost barred birds and they're intriguing.

 

[cafrhe]

I will definitely post pics when they feather out. I am curious as well.

 

[cafrhe]

I started a thread when on of the chicks started feathering out much faster than the others...I have some pics of all the chicks. The white ones are still white and 1 has 1 or 2 black feathers with barring. The others appear solid. No ghost barring that I can discern.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/950127/1-chick-developing-feathers-faster#post_14740539