Ross Cobs as meat birds

[ninjapoodles]

It's so funny that you posted this--I've been spending a lot of time browsing the Practical Poultry magazine's forum, and learning lots of differences in British terms and breeds and ideology of chickenkeeping! That forum was the first place I ever heard of Ross Cobs, and I did notice that the grow-out time was much longer than American broilers, but that they seemed to be the "broiler" of choice among people raising meat-birds in the UK.

Something else I've noticed that seems to be a fundamental difference in attitudes over eating chickens is butchering age. Lots more Brits than Americans seem to raise dual-purpose purebreds as their table birds, but with a major difference: If you read this forum, you'll see repeated statements that purebred roosters must be butchered by the time they're 12-16 weeks old or so, or else the meat will be "too tough" to be palatable. Over on the PP forum, on the other hand, you'll see repeated statements that these very same breeds must be grown out to at least 22 weeks or more, in order for them to achieve their full size and especially "full flavor."

I find it interesting that the main criteria for determining processing age here seems to be the texture of the meat, whereas over there the main criteria seems to be the flavor of the meat. And I can't help but wonder if we've got the wrong end of the stick on this one!

My family is going to attempt to put aside our notions of what "chicken" tastes like (from years of eating those jumbo Frankenchickens), and test the "tender vs. taste" factor at the end of this summer. We have some Buff Orpington cockerels who are 10 weeks apart in age, so we're going to process them on the same day, age them in the fridge the same, cook them the same way, and compare them. The older one will be 22-26 weeks old, and the younger ones will be 12-16 weeks old. We'll also be processing some White Rocks and Marans cockerels around that time. Should be interesting!

 

[becstar]

That sounds like a really interesting and worthwhile experiment! You will have to let me know how it goes. I am considering doing the same with my birds. They are all the same age, but I am going to process one a week starting from 14 weeks old. I think in the end, the only way to find out what tastes best for you is to experiment!

I think you're right when you say that opinions on rearing and processing are very different depending on cultural traditions. If you have been used to chicken having a certain texture or taste then to you, this is the 'right' texture or taste. From my experience of changing some of the choices I make when choosing the food I buy, I can certainly taste both texture and taste differences between the mass produced 'broilers' and an older, free-range, corn fed chicken. The taste we in Britain are used to is a much 'softer' (even, dare I say 'mushier') consistency of meat which comes from the mass produced, intensively reared 8 week old broilers. The reason people who try an older, free-range say they don't like it is because they are so used to eating crappy chicken. They think that chicken should be tasteless and soft because that is all they have ever known!

If you went back to WWII and post WWII times in the 1940's, when people began keeping their own chickens again for meat and eggs because of rationing, they probably re-popularised 'proper' chicken for a short while. Unfortunately, as the population increased rapidly and the country became more 'homogonised', mass production became the economic and preferred way to do things. Unfortunately this included the production of food!

So I say, maybe we should be a little more adventurous and go back to rearing healthy, flavoursome meat that has had a chance to grow and develop some texture to it's muscles rather than continue to consume a softer less flavoursome meat. This is just my opinion and I fully respect peoples choice to eat what they want. And as I am new to this whole chicken rearing business I am still learning and experimenting and I am really grateful to anyone who can impart their knowledge and wisdom on me in this area.

Becky X

 

[greyfields]

Becky,

I forgot to mention I'm a Smallholder in training. Me mam is from Herefordshire and my wife Teesside. We hope to take our farming education here in the US and head to the North Yorks Moors someday for out little bit of heaven.

 

[blue90292]

Quote:
i hope you didn't take offense in what i said. my feedstore guy has learned pretty much a bulk of everything he knows about chickens from me, and that's not saying much. it really doesn't matter where you live or what lifestyle. unless it's important to you, you're just not gonna know.

i'm originally from tokyo, japan and moved to the states in 87. moved out to the country (20 miles south of houston, lol) in 95. my mom still thinks i'm crazy. my first experience in countrydom....we decided to get a bull calf, cuz my boyfriend at the time was a bull rider. well, you can't keep just ONE cow or it won't stay in the pasture, they tell me...so i was "volunteered" to go to the local auction to go pick up another bull calf. i was volunteered cuz the "boys" had to go hunting that weekend. anyway, long story short, i came home with a horse. did i know how to ride a horse? NOOOO. just wanted one and my hand kept rising and i ended up with a horse. for a while, we called him "escrow". turns out he was a ranch horse. one of those horses where you have to corral them to catch and ride them, so escrow he was. they probably had him aced to stay calm. they had him in this little corral with a 3 year old girl on there as a selling point. i KNEW i had made a mistake when a guy walked up to me and told me i had just made a great buy. LOL. he taught me ALOT about how a real horse thinks and i've been hooked on living the country life ever since.

i'm still ignorant about alot of things. i'm wanting to start a garden but turns out i missed the season for some of my seeds. who knew....but it still makes me laugh and sometimes want to scream when people say the weirdest things as facts about things that i know are not true.

and dancingbear, on that green egg thing....when i first sold those eggs to a friend of mine, she called me that night asking me why i sold her rotten eggs. she thought, because they were green, they had gotten rotten.

 

[dancingbear]

I had one person tell me the eggs she'd gotten from me were bad, and she had to throw them out. I asked how that could be, they were very fresh, and I'd kept them refrigerated...she said the yolks were deep orange instead of light yellow, so she threw them out. I nearly cried. I explained to her that egg yolks are supposed to be orange. After that, when I had a new customer, I made sure they knew what to expect.

I don't mean any of this to be insulting to anybody. It was my own ignorance about what people need to be told that led to that. If I'd explained about the free range eggs in the first place, she'd have eaten those eggs. As it was, she bought another dozen to try, then she was hooked.

I grew up with chickens, gardens, etc., so for me, I'm often surprised by what the average person doesn't know, or gets squeamish about. I've lived in the city, too, and it was a huge adjustment for me. So much I didn't know about an urban environment.

You guys are right about the preconceived notions of what makes proper chicken. (or any other food) I think we've come to equate uniformity with quality. I've re-learned that variety is the spice of life!

I eat both younger birds and older ones, and what I find is if I want fryers, they need to be young, or they'll be too tough to chew. They can be anywhere from 6-12 weeks old, and still be tender enough to fry, the older they are, the lower I turn the temp on the stove, slower cooking goes a long way to tenderize a 12 week old bird. The non-meat breed birds aren't very big at that age, so they don't generally get made into fryers. The ones that take a lot longer to reach butchering size, I cook differently. At 4 months they can usually still be roasters, long and slow roasted. Older than that, I cook in the crock-pot, or pressure can. The meat gets good and tender, the broth is amazing, (and dark, not yellow!) and pressure canned meat is wonderful to have in the pantry, makes for many quick and easy dinners. I use canned or crock-potted meat for all manner of things, I use a lot in Mexican dishes, tamales, enchiladas, burritos, tacos, but also chicken and dumplings, chicken salad, pasta dishes, croquettes, fritters, BBQ sandwich meat, pot pie, and so on. Those older birds have outstanding flavor.

Though the homegrown fryers, when processed young, don't have quite the flavor of the older birds, they're still greatly superior to a supermarket bird. BTW, the breast meat usually stays pretty tender, even on a much older bird. So one alternative would be to take out the breast to cut up for frying, and crock-pot or can the rest of the bird. I've done that sometimes.

 

[becstar]

Hi guys! No, I didn't take offence to what you were saying about the weird and wonderful things people come out with! People asking 'dumb' questions is not the same as people with no authority on a subject just blatantly giving out incorrect information. Let me give you one of my little anecdotes...
I run a children's farm (have only been doing it for two years), that groups of inner-city primary school children visit (ages 4-8) to learn about farm animals, where their food comes from and well, just to experience the countryside environment, and I am often amazed at some of the questions the teachers come out with! For example, one day we were all in the chicken run feeding the chickens and one teacher asked me:
"So, whats the difference between a hen and a cockerel - are they different breeds of chicken?"
I kinda looked at her, taken aback for a couple of seconds to check she wasn't joking, and when I realised she wasn't, told her that the hen is the female and the cockerel is the male.
"Oh!" She exclaimed, genuinly surprised, "I thought all chickens were female". Now, I have to admit that inside I was wetting myself with laughter, but I then asked her how she thought they reproduce and after a short discussion, i allayed her misconception that all eggs are 'just fertile'!
And the reason I don't mind using this as an example of some of the unbelievable things people ask is because she was a TEACHER!!!! How scary is that? Even if she knew nothing about chickens, surely she should know something about the basics of reproduction in animals!!! If one of her 6 year old children had asked that, then I would have considerred it a very fair and very good question!

So, I answer these kinds of questions every day in my job about all of the different animals on my farm. However, the flip side is, I am in the perfect position to educate these people (children and adults) about these animals (to the best of my ability and knowledge) and the issues surrounding food production and farming and rural issues. If I don't know the answer to a question I tell them so, but then go and find out and get back to them. I am a teacher myself, and when I made the move to leave teaching (in the mainstream sense), and take up the job on this educational farm, I knew very little about farm animals. Birmingham City Council Education Department gave me the job more because I was a teacher and knew how to teach and manage large groups of children as well as how to link a farm visit directly to many areas of the primary curriculum. I was thrown in at the deep end, and had to learn everything from scratch. I made friends with a couple of local farmers and they have been my oracles!! And I am still learning every day.
But I love my job and I have learnt a lot already. In fact it has changed the way I lead my life as I have just begun to do some 'real' farming, i.e. having a go at rearing chicken for meat and not just teaching about chickens to school groups. I used some of my budget this year to buy a pair of Kune Kune gilts. These are a small type of pig with an excellent temperament. They don't grow to be that big, so they are great for the children to interract with at close quarters. However, next year when they reach about 16 months old, I am going to put one of them with a Kune Kune boar and hopefully get some piglets that I will rear for pork. I consider this a 'perk of the job'! If you are interested, I have produced a website for the farm which you can have a look at. There are some nice pictures of the children (on the 'visit itinerary' page), and a farm gallery. It gives visitors info on the farm and how a visit works. The address is:

www.moneylane.bham.org.uk Enjoy!

By the way, Mr. Greyfriars (not sure of your name), I just looked at your website and I think what you are doing is fantastic!! My dream and final goal is to start up a proper little smallholding and rear free-range products. If you ever do set up in Yorkshire, I will definitely come and pay you and your wife (and your animals) a visit!

Becky X

 

[dancingbear]

Greyfields, I looked at your site, too! What a wonderful plac you have. My kids and Grandkids are in Seattle, if you're still there by the time I go visit next, I've love to come see your place! (if I can manage it, depending on whether I rent a car, mostly, and if it's a good time for you) I lived in WA, just on the southern outskirts of Seattle, for about 15 years. I used to work at Puget Sound Blood Center, and saw a lot of the state going out on the bloodmobiles. Then my DH and I did a lot of back country wilderness hiking and camping. I thought I'd seen most of the state, but I missed your little corner! I know the areas near Olympia are really nice, I dreamed of living there, once upon a time. Not that close to you, really, but around Shelton or Yelm.

Have you considered the use of food grade DE as a parasite remover? I feed it to my chickens, dogs, and cats, and haven't had to use other wormers in about 4 years. It could help moving toward your organic goal. There's also an alternate label now, "Naturally Grown". I understand it's less costly and not nearly as PITA (pain-in-the....) as the certified organic.

It's not less organic though, you just don't have as much paperwork or hoops to jump through. Actually, our "Certified Organic" standards have come to allow very questionable practices by the food industry, (to allow them to label food "organic", even when it's crap) and the Naturally Grown folks came up with the new label in response to that. There's really organic, and legally organic. Silly, isn't it?

I'm envious of your lovely farm! I wish mine was so productive! Ah, well, maybe someday. I'm just in a bit of a funk about mine because my garden is dreadful this year, not nearly enough rain, and we're in a situation where we can't water when we need to.
Last year was good, though, and next year will be better. At least my birds are doing alright, even if the garden isn't. (We had a hatch of 17 year cicadas this year too, I lost every bit of my fruit, even the wild blackberries. But the chickens gorged on these giant bugs.)

Some other folks around here, who are able to water, have good crops of tomatoes and whatnot, so I'm buying from them to put up food for the winter.

 

[dancingbear]

Becky, I have dial-up, and it's too slow to completely load your site (unless I wait a really long time), but what I saw looks wonderful. What a great set-up. I really like your farm-ed program for the kids. That looks like a delightful thing to do.

It's got me thinking that maybe in a few years, I could set up something similar here, but perhaps a paid workshop for adults. Maybe a special workshop for kids, later. The idea of supplementing my income, while at the same time doing something useful and educational for others really appeals to me.

Those pigs are interesting, DH and I have been talking about raising some pigs ourselves. We have fencing to deal with first, but we have an old barn where we could adapt a stall for pigs. We're thinking we'd put a door to an outside pen, so they could wander in and out as they like. Eventually have larger fenced area to allow them access to the woods, so they could forage on wild mast and such. We have a lot of oak and walnut trees, and wild fruit like blackberries and such.

Right now we only have chickens and guineas, we've raised ducks and turkeys in the past. We'll have Turkeys again at some point, and maybe peafowl, but I think we're done with ducks. The water situation just isn't good for them, here. Maybe a few geese, at some point, though. They do well on pasture without a pond.

 

[becstar]

Hi Jenny

Thanks for your kind comments about the farm I run. I know the web site can be a bit difficult to load - that's because the pictures on there are too big (aparently), and I am not yet sure how to decrease their file size. I will have to learn!
I run the farm for my local education authority who have a number of what they call 'outdoor learning centres'. My farm is one of 9 of these type of centres. There is also another farm site (which is just a dairy farm), a botanical garden with glasshouses, two environmental study centres, a nature centre, a woodland study centre and two 'forest schools'. We all teach different aspects of the environment at our respective centres. It's a great job and it has taught me so much.
I have to admit, since I have been doing it, I have mulled over the idea of starting my very own farm for children. I know what the schools pay to visit my centre, and if it was run all year round, it would be a livable income what with my partners wage too. You wouldn't make a fortune on visits alone, but you could also set up a 'farm shop' so people could buy your produce and maybe other things like art and craft items. And lets face it, work is definitely NOT all about the money. If you're job is your hobby, then what could be better?
Your idea for housing the pigs sounds great. I would recommend Kune Kune's to anyone, although I don't know if you can get them in the US. They are originally from New Zealand and they only came to Britain as a rare breed in 1992! Aparently the meat from this breed is excellent, and they don't reallly root much like other breeds do. So you won't have a mud bath to worry about! If you want to find out more about this breed, visit www.britishkunekunesociety.org.uk
It's a British site, but they may be able to point you in the right direction as far as availability in the US goes.

 

[blue90292]

here you go.

http://www.usakunekunes.com/history.html