Sex- linked Information

[dheltzel]

Can you please explain the difference between Blue and Lavender and why lavender will work in a sex link cross.

Sure. "blue" (the more complete name might be "Andulusian Blue" after the original breed it came from, but often called BBS or Blue/Black/Splash), is partially dominant. In a heterozygous state (1 copy) the bird appear blue and passes that to about half it's progeny, so when crossed to a black bird (like a barred rock hen), half will be blue rather than black. If the parent is splash instead of blue, all the progeny will be blue.

A Lavender bird, OTOH, must be homozygous (2 copies) in order to show as Lavender as Lav is recessive. A bird that is "split for Lav" will be black, but carry a hidden copy of the Lav gene. As long as the other parent is not carrying Lav (a reasonable assumption with a barred rock hen, but not a guarantee), then all the progeny will be black, but carry a hidden Lav gene. Since the chicks will appear black, the requirement for an easily sexed chick being black with only the female parent being barred, is met.

 

[windyridgefarm]

would i get sex linked chicks if i crossed barred rock hens with blue opringtons?

There is a chart in the older posts that you may find helpful. It explains sex linked crosses and describes different groups of hens and roosters that can be crossed together to result in sexlinked chicks. It would be great if we all put our heads together to expand on the chart to include more breeds and cross combinations. I think the newer people and less genetically inclined get frustrated when they hear a term like red/gold based color rooster. They are usually looking for 'can I cross this with that.' It would be nice if it was in a chart and didnt have to be explained everytime.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There is no way you can build an all-inclusive chart. The way this chart is set up every rooster on the left will make a sex link with every hen on the right in that chart. But there are a lot of combinations where you can get a sex link with specific chickens but not with every chicken in the chart.

An example is a Delaware hen. A Delaware has both Silver and barring. If you cross a Delaware hen with any of the roosters in the red sex link chart you get a red sex link chick. If you cross a Delaware hen with a black rooster you get a black sex link chick. But not every rooster in the black sex link chart will give you a black sex link chick with a Delaware hen so you cannot include a Delaware on the hen side of the black sex link chart. To try to include things like this would make that chart unmanageable.

Another problem is that a lot of the chickens asked about are not recognized colors of a specific breed. There are also a lot of breeds around the world that are not common in the USA. Standards are different for the same breed in different countries. Different colors are recognized in different countries. How in the world (pun intended) can you put every breed or every color/pattern of chicken in one chart?

 

[windyridgefarm]

Thank you, I am familiar with the blue black splash but that explains why someone was selling eggs of Blue Ameraucanas that would also throw Lavenders I was under the impression the colors were more related. I am new to chicken genetics and learning. My background is in plant genetics,
I find it interesting that some people say they can sex the blues others say no. The head spot ma not be as visable but the males should be lighter overall or is that too subtle?

Now can you explain wheaten as related to sex linked crosses. I have seen conflicting information, From what I gather you can not use a wheaten rooster for a black sex link cross as the wheaten chick down is not affected by the barring gene.

Then people say a barred EE x any color Ameraucana

 

[windyridgefarm]

There is no way you can build an all-inclusive chart. The way this chart is set up every rooster on the left will make a sex link with every hen on the right in that chart. But there are a lot of combinations where you can get a sex link with specific chickens but not with every chicken in the chart.

An example is a Delaware hen. A Delaware has both Silver and barring. If you cross a Delaware hen with any of the roosters in the red sex link chart you get a red sex link chick. If you cross a Delaware hen with a black rooster you get a black sex link chick. But not every rooster in the black sex link chart will give you a black sex link chick with a Delaware hen so you cannot include a Delaware on the hen side of the black sex link chart. To try to include things like this would make that chart unmanageable.

Another problem is that a lot of the chickens asked about are not recognized colors of a specific breed. There are also a lot of breeds around the world that are not common in the USA. Standards are different for the same breed in different countries. Different colors are recognized in different countries. How in the world (pun intended) can you put every breed or every color/pattern of chicken in one chart?

I see, Perhaps a running list/spread sheet would work better than a chart. A spread sheet kept In alphabetical order for each type of sex link Then people could consult the list or add to the list when they find a cross that works.. Should answer 95% of the questions as the people asking are usually not the ones with rare or exotic breeds in that case they could always ask. I am just trying to think of some type of knowledge base we can develope.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Windyridge, if you check out the chart in the very first post, you will see several Wheaten roosters that can be used to make black sex links. I’m no expert on wheaten for sure, but I suspect it depends a lot on what other genetics are there. I’ve seen some experts say that wheaten can be a challenge but obviously it is not always a problem.

I have never played with blue so I can’t say anything from a personal experience point. I’m not going to scroll back through this entire thread to find them but there is discussion on being able to see the spot for a black sex link on blue chicks a few places. Most people say they can see the spot, but I think the problem is that it can sometimes be a lot more difficult to see the spot.

Part of them being sex linked is that you can actually see the difference in the down. That can be a lot easier in some cases than others. Many red sex links are extremely clear which is which. The down all over the body is clearly different. With some red sex link crosses the only difference in down may be a small spot on the head, a very small spot. Having a bit of experience and having both males and females to compare can come in really handy with these.

If you are getting into chicken genetics and haven’t seen it you might want to play with the cross calculator. It’s pretty basic and does not show a lot of details really well, especially leakage. The calculator would show that buff over barred rock pullet above as pure black. It can be quite challenging just knowing what genetics to start with. As Dheltzel said, you have to make assumptions. There are often different ways to make certain colors and often other colors or patterns are hiding under other colors or patterns. You not only have dominant and recessive but partially or incomplete dominant. It does not address chick down at all. But it can help you learn some of the basics. It’s not a bad place to start.

Cross Calculator
http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

 

[donrae]

As already mentioned, these will produce chicks that are genetically sex-linked. However, not all sex linked characteristics show well in the chick down. For example, any cross with a barred hen to a non-barred roo will produce chicks where only the males have a gene for barring. This barring can be hidden by a number of other genes (like white), and the white head spot show best on a black down chick, hence the need for extended black (E) to be present in at least one parent. In my experience, E modifiers like "blue" can make it very hard to distinguish the white head dot, and even the barring on the primary feathers. I use a blue Ameraucana over a black barred hen and was not able to sex the blue chicks, though the black ones sexed out easily. All the blue chicks looked like females, but of course they were not.

So I would give a qualified "yes". The chicks will be sexlinked for barring, but you may not be able to visually distinguish the sexes in the blue chicks, which will make up about half of your hatch. If you use a black Orp, or even a Lavender (self-blue), then all the chicks will be black sexlinks and easily sexed.

I'm running into this also. Oddly enough, my first crosses last year (Splash Ameraucana x mixed breed barred hens or barred Rocks) produced easily sexable chicks, the males had a nicely defined head spot....


as seen above. The barring is subtle on a blue bird and harder to see, granted, but I had clear head spots.

I've since changed roosters (still splash Ameraucana) and gone with barred Holland and a cuckoo Marans hen. I hatched 4 of the Marans crosses. One definite female, two definite males, and one ambiguous. No real head spot on hatch, and I swear there's no barring on this bird. But the legs are nice and white, and I'm thinking the leg color is sex linked as the other males have white legs and the female was dark. I'm really watching comb development, but I think it's a male.
I also hatched 6 of the Holland mix chicks, very difficult to sex! One obvious female, the rest look to be males but I'm honestly not positive. I'll try to get some pics up later to get some input.

I'm disappointed in the difficulty sexing these guys, I'd so wanted to have a good recipe for blue sex links that lay blue eggs

 

[dheltzel]

I'm running into this also. Oddly enough, my first crosses last year (Splash Ameraucana x mixed breed barred hens or barred Rocks) produced easily sexable chicks, the males had a nicely defined head spot....


as seen above. The barring is subtle on a blue bird and harder to see, granted, but I had clear head spots.

I've since changed roosters (still splash Ameraucana) and gone with barred Holland and a cuckoo Marans hen. I hatched 4 of the Marans crosses. One definite female, two definite males, and one ambiguous. No real head spot on hatch, and I swear there's no barring on this bird. But the legs are nice and white, and I'm thinking the leg color is sex linked as the other males have white legs and the female was dark. I'm really watching comb development, but I think it's a male.
I also hatched 6 of the Holland mix chicks, very difficult to sex! One obvious female, the rest look to be males but I'm honestly not positive. I'll try to get some pics up later to get some input.

I'm disappointed in the difficulty sexing these guys, I'd so wanted to have a good recipe for blue sex links that lay blue eggs

That's what I was hoping for too. Maybe it is that Barred Hollands are not that good for making black sexlinks. Even the black sexlinked chicks sometimes lack a good head spot. Barring on the primaries on about day 5 or 6 works 100% though.

I am getting California Greys to try next year, I'll let you know if they work better. I certainly hope they lay better than the Barred Hollands. My BH hens average 3 - 4 eggs per week.

 

[donrae]

I've been considering those also. Not especially thrilled with the Hollands, although at least they're small and don't eat a ton. Maybe I'll ditch the idea of blue eggs and settle for green, and just go with good ol Rocks, they're a great standby breed IMO.

 

[lazy gardener]

I've made BSL with RIR x PBR, EE x PBR, EE x Dom, EE x SLW. I'm now in a toss up about continuing with Dom or switching over to SLW for my EE x ? crosses. The good thing about the SLW is that they make a very nice meaty rooster. Dom roos too compact for the table. PBR is certainly a good choice, but I prefer a more compact comb. Can't wait to see how this year's crop of pullets perform. I hate to cull any of them... but must!