Sharing my girl Gidget's Story-Please Don't Overfeed Treats

[ChickyMudder]

I’m sorry for your loss. I had a different experience with fatty liver disease and thought you might take comfort in my experience. I hope it helps your grief.

I had two production reds from the hatchery. They were my favorite girls. Perfect hens that laid every day even in the winter.
At two they began to look tattered, lose weight, and at three I could admit they were suffering. I wormed them, gave they 30% game bird crumble, isolated them. But nothing helped.
When I finally culled them I found fatty liver disease. Their livers were decimated. But I didn’t give lots of treats or over feed.
I researched it and found hatchery birds are susceptible to fatty liver disease because they lay so young and devote all resources to laying.

I’ve started raising heritage birds to try and avoid this issue with my future pets.

Maybe you didn’t cause it all. Maybe it was just a combo of issues?

My friend is a huge production egg chicken farmer and sells all two year olds. Maybe this is why?

 

[ChickyMudder]

Thank you for your story. I am new to chicken-keeping, we have 30 6-week old birds now. I have fed them mealworms maybe 3-4x since they have gone into the coop. Mostly I want to use it to train them to come back to me if they get out of their run space. We live in town and our neighbors would be unhappy if they got into their yard.

Size weeks might be a bit young for mealworms. Have you given them grit?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I’m sorry for your loss. I had a different experience with fatty liver disease and thought you might take comfort in my experience. I hope it helps your grief.

I had two production reds from the hatchery. They were my favorite girls. Perfect hens that laid every day even in the winter.
At two they began to look tattered, lose weight, and at three I could admit they were suffering. I wormed them, gave they 30% game bird crumble, isolated them. But nothing helped.
When I finally culled them I found fatty liver disease. Their livers were decimated. But I didn’t give lots of treats or over feed.
I researched it and found hatchery birds are susceptible to fatty liver disease because they lay so young and devote all resources to laying.

I’ve started raising heritage birds to try and avoid this issue with my future pets.

Maybe you didn’t cause it all. Maybe it was just a combo of issues?

My friend is a huge production egg chicken farmer and sells all two year olds. Maybe this is why?

Production layers are usually sold (or repurposed) at the first adult molt because its weeks or months of essentially no production, followed by a productive period that averages 70-78% of what it was in their prime laying year. Keeping them on another year used to be acceptable, a half century ago. Still is in some parts of the world. But margins are so tight in the US, you cant afford to feed three birds to get the production of two.

FLHS is a catch-all for a condition, not a cause. Often it is pretty clearly feed related. A appreciate the courtesy the original poster did us by sharing their pain, that others need not repeat their mistakes. Most of the time its feed related, it can be readily and appropriately attributed to diet. This case has all the hallmarks. Please don't blunt the lesson with an excess of empathy. Admitting error is rare in the human species, we should respect them all the more for doing it on a public forum.

Yes, FLHS is more prevalent in production layers, due to the way estrogen affects the ways in which chickens deposit fat - something they don't do nearly as effectively as we human-types do - but its not a significant concern in commercial layers in commercial conditions - because their feed formulation is bare minimum. There isn't a lot of fat, or a lot of protein, the carbs are monitored, and the feeding volume tightly controlled - there just isn't an excess of calories for them to convert to fat and store. Another part of protecting margins.

People raising production breeds at home and keeping them for more than a few years see greater incidence, of course, but they are less likely to feed a subsistence diet, and lets be frank, production layers aren't bred for longevity. They are bred to burn the proverbial candle at both ends, then become pet food or similar after giving it their all for a season. Hatchery birds which are not production breeds may be poor examples of standard (probably are), but as hundreds or thousands of "my bird is 17 weeks, why isn't it laying yet" posts on BYC will demonstrate, most hatchery breeds don't lay early large and often.

There are other things which can contaminate feed, and result in an FLHS outcome, even lacking in obvious treats or a grossly imblalanced core feed, but the other symptoms are generally lacking. If its impractical or impossible to necropsy, and you have a large flock, I recommend periodically getting up inside your birds and taking a look around. Tells you a lot about how your flock is doing as a whole. (Note that your hens should have a bit more fat than this - its the estrogen encouraging them to create fat reserves for when they are broody)

 

[ChickyMudder]

Production layers are usually sold (or repurposed) at the first adult molt because its weeks or months of essentially no production, followed by a productive period that averages 70-78% of what it was in their prime laying year. Keeping them on another year used to be acceptable, a half century ago. Still is in some parts of the world. But margins are so tight in the US, you cant afford to feed three birds to get the production of two.

FLHS is a catch-all for a condition, not a cause. Often it is pretty clearly feed related. A appreciate the courtesy the original poster did us by sharing their pain, that others need not repeat their mistakes. Most of the time its feed related, it can be readily and appropriately attributed to diet. This case has all the hallmarks. Please don't blunt the lesson with an excess of empathy. Admitting error is rare in the human species, we should respect them all the more for doing it on a public forum.

Yes, FLHS is more prevalent in production layers, due to the way estrogen affects the ways in which chickens deposit fat - something they don't do nearly as effectively as we human-types do - but its not a significant concern in commercial layers in commercial conditions - because their feed formulation is bare minimum. There isn't a lot of fat, or a lot of protein, the carbs are monitored, and the feeding volume tightly controlled - there just isn't an excess of calories for them to convert to fat and store. Another part of protecting margins.

People raising production breeds at home and keeping them for more than a few years see greater incidence, of course, but they are less likely to feed a subsistence diet, and lets be frank, production layers aren't bred for longevity. They are bred to burn the proverbial candle at both ends, then become pet food or similar after giving it their all for a season. Hatchery birds which are not production breeds may be poor examples of standard (probably are), but as hundreds or thousands of "my bird is 17 weeks, why isn't it laying yet" posts on BYC will demonstrate, most hatchery breeds don't lay early large and often.

There are other things which can contaminate feed, and result in an FLHS outcome, even lacking in obvious treats or a grossly imblalanced core feed, but the other symptoms are generally lacking. If its impractical or impossible to necropsy, and you have a large flock, I recommend periodically getting up inside your birds and taking a look around. Tells you a lot about how your flock is doing as a whole. (Note that your hens should have a bit more fat than this - its the estrogen encouraging them to create fat reserves for when they are broody)

Wow that was a lot of information. Thank you for your comments but I had to laugh at your suggestion to not have empathy for grieving pet owners because their self blame and pain might help others. I shared my experience. It doesn’t over shadow the message that chickens should not be fed fatty diets. I think we all agree.

If I sifted through your post correctly, I think I also heard you saying not to feed your production birds high quality feed because they are more susceptible to fatty liver disease.

I think I’d disagree. I say feed them healthy balanced feed and just know they are not bred for long lives. Love them while they are here. Feed BSLF treats. Get your snuggles. Be at peace when they pass. You loved them well and did all you could to give them their best life.
#overly-empathetic
Bam

 

[GreenJay]

so sorry about Gidget! Very pretty girl

 

[SchwartzLakeFarmNC]

so sorry about Gidget! Very pretty girl

Thank you, she was the G.O.A.T., I still have a few videos of her and her egg call, hard to watch knowing I was responsible for her early demise. I hope to add 2 SS to my flock this spring.

 

[Cal Gal]

We were blessed to start our very first flock back in 2011 with 16 wonderful little chicks from Meyers Hatchery. We built them the "chicken mansion" and huge runs, and free range area for their growth and wellbeing. At the time there was just my wife, daughter and I to care for the 16 little joy givers. One of the breeds I chose was a Speckled Sussex and I gave her the name Gidget, yes, for those familiar with the show in the 60's played by Sally Fields.

Gidget become the flock leader as we did not choose to have a Cockerel/Rooster for our flock. Gidget was the first layer of the bunch at 17 weeks 4 days, and she gave the absolute best egg call when heading into the nesting box, I've saved her video of her strutting along the bar of the nesting boxes letting the whole world know she is going to lay an egg soon. She was the best girl anyone could have asked for, sweet as a daisy, reserved when needed and stern when it came to flock control/management. We learned a great deal the first year with our flock, we lost our first girl a BR due to botulism. Our second loss was my beloved girl Gidget, with no signs of distress or foreknowledge of illness, I found her dead in the coop, and I cried.

Looking for answers I came onto this site, which I've been a part of during this time and posed the normal questions of "what happened to our chicken"? One response was to send her off for a Necropsy. I found a local lab and prepared her for shipment. 2 weeks later the results. Fatty liver/Heart attack/overweight.
This is where we regrouped and reviewed how could this happen, did I contribute to Gidget's demise, YES, we played a pivotal role in her death, we gave her way too many treats, we gave our entire flock too many treats, let me explain further.

It's fun to watch our flock attack new foods and treats so we gave them a little bit of everything. We gave mealworms, scratch,sunflower seeds, meat, scraps,fish,eggs,catfood, anything and everything and no limits at this time. We had no idea what we were contributing to or our causation of an early death for our girls. I see all the time, questions about treats, how much, what type, what not to give and what to limit. Please take my words for it, just stop and think about it for a minute before you just give in and throw all sorts of things into your flock. Moderation is key, but even more important is quantity. After our Gidget's death, we focused more on a balance diet of their pellets and mash, and in minor amounts good treats from time to time, if I had only knew then what I know right now.....
When it comes to treats of any kind, less is more, chicken feed is most important for small flocks like ours that did not free range the entire time, their main source came from the pellets/crumbles. I would rather have my girls live longer to share in their lives than to constantly give them "treats" because they like them, my heart still breaks for this chicken 12 years removed, if you love your flock as I know you do, please don't overdo it, I don't wish the pain of our loss to be shared by anyone else here. Give your girls a big hug today, and refrain from too many treats.

We still miss you Gidget....

Thank you so much. I must confess I am probably an over feeder. I will restrain myself.

 

[GreenJay]

Thank you, she was the G.O.A.T., I still have a few videos of her and her egg call, hard to watch knowing I was responsible for her early demise. I hope to add 2 SS to my flock this spring.

Have two SS here, so charming and adorable

One makes a dreadful egg call tho, yikes!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Wow that was a lot of information. Thank you for your comments but I had to laugh at your suggestion to not have empathy for grieving pet owners because their self blame and pain might help others. I shared my experience. It doesn’t over shadow the message that chickens should not be fed fatty diets. I think we all agree.

If I sifted through your post correctly, I think I also heard you saying not to feed your production birds high quality feed because they are more susceptible to fatty liver disease.

I think I’d disagree. I say feed them healthy balanced feed and just know they are not bred for long lives. Love them while they are here. Feed BSLF treats. Get your snuggles. Be at peace when they pass. You loved them well and did all you could to give them their best life.
#overly-empathetic
Bam

Thanks Chicky - I read their rather empathic response as "don't worry about it, you probably aren't responsible"

and no, I generally recommend an "All Flock"*-type formulation with free choice oyster shell for all chickens of all ages and genders for most BYCers (flocks of Cx/Meaties excluded - but they aren't intended for the long haul, regardless )

*Essentially an 18-20% protein, 3.5% fat+/-, 1.25% calcium +/-, 3.5% fiber +/- feed, preferably with about .6% Phosphorus, at least .35% Methionine, and .7% Lysine.

 

[Kiki]

I’m sorry for your loss. I had a different experience with fatty liver disease and thought you might take comfort in my experience. I hope it helps your grief.

I had two production reds from the hatchery. They were my favorite girls. Perfect hens that laid every day even in the winter.
At two they began to look tattered, lose weight, and at three I could admit they were suffering. I wormed them, gave they 30% game bird crumble, isolated them. But nothing helped.
When I finally culled them I found fatty liver disease. Their livers were decimated. But I didn’t give lots of treats or over feed.
I researched it and found hatchery birds are susceptible to fatty liver disease because they lay so young and devote all resources to laying.

I’ve started raising heritage birds to try and avoid this issue with my future pets.

Maybe you didn’t cause it all. Maybe it was just a combo of issues?

My friend is a huge production egg chicken farmer and sells all two year olds. Maybe this is why?

30% protein is overfeeding.