show quality speckled sussex ??

[3riverschick]

Hi,

https://books.google.com/books?id=6... Sussex" undercolor subject:"poultry"&f=false

Poultry Tribune
page 28 of may 1922. APA changes color of undercolor in Speckled Sussex

Has there been another change since then? If not, is the fancy seeing all three colors in the underfluff?
Don't quote me on this but I believe the three color undercolor came about because the fancy was trying to get that deep mahogany bay ground color.

 

[Leela NH]

Hi,

https://books.google.com/books?id=6... Sussex" undercolor subject:"poultry"&f=false

Poultry Tribune
page 28 of may 1922. APA changes color of undercolor in Speckled Sussex

Has there been another change since then? If not, is the fancy seeing all three colors in the underfluff?
Don't quote me on this but I believe the three color undercolor came about because the fancy was trying to get that deep mahogany bay ground color.

Karen,

I'm going by what Gary taught me...specifically seeing slate/grey and salmon at base of feather. I thought I had read the same in the Finkelstein article you forwarded to me a while back...which I need to find.

Leela

 

[Leela NH]

In reference to under color.

OK, I found this. This cut and paste version I have edited, as the translation from original version screwed up a lot of words etc. There is still a bit of that here, so forgive me.

{There are some typos in this article. I did my best to correct some of them, but some words remain a mystery, I marked some of those with a ?} Leela
Color of Speckled Sussex (c. 1921)

American Poultry Journal, Volume 52 1921 , Page 784 Chicago : American Poultry Journal Pub. Co.
Color of Speckled Sussex.In mating the Speckled Sussex the first thing to consider is type. The Sussex fowl has a type distinctly its own, and it is type that is both practical and very beautiful, and breeders should strive to maintain. In picking the females for the mating select those having long, broad, deep bodies which slope slightly from shoulders to tail, full, prominent breasts. low well spread tails, shanks of medium length, good substance and set well apart, strong necks of medium length and broad, deep skulls. In surface color, the female should be an even shade of rich mahogany" POMO (?) color over entire breast, back and body each feather ending in a black bar with a white tip. There is a tendency toward peppering in the ground color of the feathers and this must be guarded against, although a small amount of this is not such a serious breeding defect as some people seem to think. Under color should be slate or slate shading into salmon at the skin.
In wings I like to have the primaries mixed black and white, and the lower half or outer edge of each secondary feather a rich mahogany brown, and the upper half or inner edge of secondary, black. This kind of wing shows a beautiful brown when folded.
Main tail feathers should be black and white, a little more black than white, and the coverts black, tipped with white. The male to go with these females should be a bird that is full of vigor and vitality and of not less than 9 lbs. for cock or ? for cockerel. He should have a long, broad, flat back which slopes nicely from shoulders to tail; a full, prominent, squared appearing breast, low well spread tail: shanks that are straight, strong and set well apart! large neck, of medium length; and a broad, ? head. His color should be an even shade of dark rich mahogany over neck, back, wing bowl and saddle, each hackle and saddle feather to have a narrow black stripe through the center of lower end. It is desirable to have each hackle and saddle feather tipped with white, but do not be too particular about tipping in these two sections, as males having very little hackle and saddle tipping will breed good stock. The thing to work for is the proper shade of ground color. One male having the correct shade of mahogany ground color and practically no hackle and saddle tipping is worth a dozen males that are nicely tipped in these sections but have the light red or sandy ground color. As breeders, use those males whose under color is slate shading into salmon at the base in all sections. The breast, body and fluff surface color of the male should be the same as that of the back of the females. Wing color, same as that described for the females. Main tail feathers about equally divided in black and white, main sickles, lesser sickles and coverts greenish black tipped with white. However, it is not always possible to have the main sickle feathers black, as is attested by the fact that some of the winning males in our best shows have almost solid white sickles. From such a mating as is above described one may reasonably expect to get a large percentage of good exhibition specimens of both sexes.
Now about picking out the promising birds amidst the young stock, and on this matter I write for the purpose of aiding the beginner with Sussex to properly select and develop his young stock. Picking the chicks for color is a comparatively easy task for me, and begins as soon as the chicks are hatched and thoroughly dried. When taking off a hatch it will be noted that some of the chicks have rich yellow-colored bodies with a reddish cast on top, others will be a deep brown with stripes along each side of the back and still others will be very light in color, in fact almost white. This great variation in the color of the chicks is due to the fact that the Speckled Sussex is a tri-colored or three-colored fowl. If the reddish yellow and the brown chicks are leg banded or toe marked and their development carefully noted it will be found that they are the ones that will grow into the best colored fowls. This does not mean that none of the whiter chicks will be of any value in color, as usually there will be a few of them that will develop- into nicely colored birds, but not any appreciable number. Occasionally chicks will hatch almost black and these will always remain too dark in color.From this it will be seen that one may pick his Sussex chicks for color at a very early age. In fact, so early that some who read this may say it can't be done, but this is not an epistle to the unbeliever. I have followed this plan of selecting for color for several years, and found it satisfactory. Picking for type requires a little age on the birds. The beginner should not attempt to select for type until his chicks are about twelve weeks old, although I have reached the point where I can pick most of those that will be best in type at a somewhat earlier age. If the chicks are closely observed it will be seen that some of them have long, flat backs, full round breasts and a considerable fullness below the vent. These are the fellows to select for type. The chicks that have slim bodies, flat breasts, long, slender legs and little body formation back of the legs never amount to much in type, and neither do those that have little, short "humped up" bodies. So much for selecting the birds.
Now we come to the subject of feeding them. When the chicks are forty-eight hours old give a feed of corn bread that has been soaked in milk and from which the excess moisture has been squeezed, being careful to give only as much of the feed as will be cleaned up in about 15 minutes. The bread and milk should be the only feed given the chicks for the first three days. After the third day a mixture of grain composed of one part corn, one part wheat, one-half part hulled oats' and one-half part kafir corn ground to the fineness of coffee when ground on mother's old hand mill should be added to the ration. Feed the chicks four times a day, giving two feeds of the grain and' two of the moist bread. Continue with this feed until the chicks are four weeks old, at which time you may discontinue the moist bread and substitute a boiled mash made up of one part corn meal, one part bran and one part rolled oats. You also should at this time increase the size of the grains in the grain mixture. Any table scraps you have on hand may be added to the cooked mash and will be greatly relished by the birds. Provide plenty of green feed right from the start, and once a day give the chicks all the buttermilk they will drink, if obtainable. If you have no milk, add a little coarse beef scrap to the grain feed after the chicks are a month old. Grit, charcoal and clean water should be accessible at all times. This constitutes the full feeding course from the time the chicks are hatched until fully matured. It is a method of feeding that is very simple and easy to practice and one that will produce results.
Now a few points on housing. Provide the growing stock with dry, well ventilated houses that are kept clean, free from lice and mites and well bedded. As the weather becomes warmer, use the coarsest straw* obtainable for litter, and see that it is deep enough to hold the chicks well up off the floor so the air will circulate through the straw under them. Keep the birds off the perches until two-thirds grown, and thus avoid crooked breast bones.
Missouri. John Miller.

 

[Leela NH]

From "The Mating and Breeding of Poultry" by Harry M. Lamon (Author), Rob R. Slocum (Author) 1920






Great book, avail here digital. This link leads to the Sussex section quoted above.

https://archive.org/stream/matingbreedingof00lamo#page/222/mode/2up

 

[3riverschick]

Way to go Leela, this is good stuff you found!!
I found these:

American Poultry Advocate - Volume 31 - Page pages 391 and 406
The Sussex- An English Contribution
Undercolor discussion on Page 406 at least.
https://books.google.com/books?id=d...x" change OR salmon subject:"poultry"&f=false
------------
American Poultry Advocate, Volume 31 , July 1923
The Speckled Sussex by Hoffman
https://books.google.com/books?id=d... Standard OR change subject:"poultry"&f=false
---------

American Poultry Journal, Volume 53, Jan. 1922
is this before or after the APA changed the undercolor in the Speckled Sussex?
critique of Schilling's Sussex drawing:
https://books.google.com/books?id=r...ffects ground color subject:"poultry"&f=false
--------------------
https://books.google.com/books?id=r...ffects ground color subject:"poultry"&f=false
---------------------------
S.P.P.A. Bulletin - Page 14
https://books.google.com/books?id=q15MAAAAYAAJ
Society for Preservation of Poultry Antiquities - 1977 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
The ground colour of the Speckled Sussex is mahogany hay. In the male ... The effect of
the spectacle diminishes if there is less than the right amount of ground colour. The same
... The Standard calls for three bars of undercolour. If two birds ...

Does anyone have this Bulletin so we can read the whole thing?
------------------------------------
American Poultry Journal, Volume 52
pages 576 and 577 undercolor speckled sussex
https://books.google.com/books?id=Y... Sussex" undercolor subject:"poultry"&f=false
-------------------------------
Feb. 1918 Poultry Success Vol. 29, Page 51.
https://books.google.com/books?id=F... Sussex" undercolor subject:"poultry"&f=false
-----------------------------


Best,
Karen

 

[Leela NH]

Way to go Leela, this is good stuff you found!!
I found these:

Best,
Karen
Thanks Karen, you've been invaluable in my Sussex education and passion. Much gratitude.
This breed/variety means so much to me. My mentors are one in a million, and I am so very blessed. I feel like I won the lottery.
My goal is to put as much of my energy into helping this breed, given my time and resources. The love is abundant and endless.
Kind of a good feeling when you find your breed...it's like falling in love.

Leela
Kindred Hill Farm, NH

 

[Leela NH]

Quote:

American Poultry Journal, Volume 53, Jan. 1922
is this before or after the APA changed the undercolor in the Speckled Sussex?
critique of Schilling's Sussex drawing:
https://books.google.com/books?id=r...ffects ground color subject:"poultry"&f=false

--------------------

I believe the undercolor standard change proposal was 1921, but may not have been implemented until the following year.

 

[3riverschick]

I believe the undercolor standard change proposal was 1921, but may not have been implemented until the following year.

oh, okay. thanks, I wasn't sure.
Best,
Karen

 

[Wappoke]

Karen and Lela and other interested parties,

It is my opinion that the wheaten found in the speckled sussex is recessive wheaten and dominant wheaten. Chicks that have some markings in a light down color sounds like recessive wheaten. Chicks that have no markings are dominant wheaten. Recessive wheaten normally produces a darker ground color (more black) than dominant wheaten in the adult plumage.

Chicks that have the chipmunk back and heavy distinct eye strip are most likely wild type, birds with weak chipmunk markings could be heterozygous wild type/dominant wheaten or wild type/recessive wheaten or even buttercup.

Speckled sussex are a black tailed red phenotype with modified mottling. The black tailed red phenotype can be produced on the brown, wild type, buttercup, and wheaten E locus. From what I can gather ( from this string) , the dominant wheaten produces a better adult plumage than the recessive wheaten.

 

[Leela NH]

Karen and Lela and other interested parties,

It is my opinion that the wheaten found in the speckled sussex is recessive wheaten and dominant wheaten. Chicks that have some markings in a light down color sounds like recessive wheaten. Chicks that have no markings are dominant wheaten. Recessive wheaten normally produces a darker ground color (more black) than dominant wheaten in the adult plumage.

Chicks that have the chipmunk back and heavy distinct eye strip are most likely wild type, birds with weak chipmunk markings could be heterozygous wild type/dominant wheaten or wild type/recessive wheaten or even buttercup.

Speckled sussex are a black tailed red phenotype with modified mottling. The black tailed red phenotype can be produced on the brown, wild type, buttercup, and wheaten E locus. From what I can gather ( from this string) , the dominant wheaten produces a better adult plumage than the recessive wheaten.

Thanks very much! Exactly the type of genetic info I was looking for to start putting this puzzle together. I hatched out 6 chicks from Walt Reichert birds. 3 were solid gold/yellow, 3 were gold/yellow with some faint black markings, and black dots on heads. Unfortunately I did not band them at hatch to mark them, they were an experiment to see what the birds would produce. I sold them to a friend. 3 were male and 3 female. Now I wonder if there was some type of sex linking going on...

All of my Overton matings hatched out gold, some with faint markings, some solid. All had good ground color as 6 month olds.

Is there a genetics thread somewhere to learn more? Thanks!

Leela