Sick Duck, Any Suggestions?

[Amelia-DarkWing]

If anyone reads this and knows any answers, I could really use some advice. We went to the vet, and have done so much research, but there are so many unanswered questions.

I love my ducks so very much, and cannot bare the thought of either of them suffering.

I have 2 ducks, both 5 months:

1. Amelia (Pekin, Female)
2. Dark Wing aka DW ( Rouen, Male)

Amelia has been sick for 2 weeks now. All that she has been through, I couldn't possibly expect anyone to read the lengths that it extends. I will try to keep this short, and not bore anyone with my sobbing/crying, but I REALLY love her and hope someone has some advice. I feel as I have exhausted all possibilities. She is an indoor/outdoor duck. Amelia and DW are always at each others sides. Here is the short version of what happened in week 1, to what is happening now:

1. Amelia swallowed 3 coins (for the record, we know better than to leave anything of the such in easy access, there were unusual circumstances) Metal of course is poison to her.

2. We took her to the vet, who gave us the special calcium shots, but did not recommend surgery, due to the high risks. It was a 4 day treatment.

3. The first 2 days her side-effects started improve. Such as walking again, not limping as much, and eating more. One thing that has not changed this entire time is her green/watery poop and constant thirst.

4. Then, the worst part... she started having these horrible seizures. They've lasted about 4 days, and started getting more frequent. Sometimes she'd have them minutes apart. The only vet we had a choice of had gone on vacation.

5. She stopped eating completely. She was burning up, so I put her in her little duck pool. She didn't want to leave it, and if I tried to take her out, she immediately went into a seizure. Her pool is only a few inches deep, so I wasn't worried about her staying in it while having a seizure. She officially stayed in her mini-pond without leaving for nearly 2 days.

6. I researched more and more over all of this. Adding more Niacin to her feed, trying her favorite treats: dried meal worms, tomatoes, boiled egg, and even watering it down for her. It wasn't working.

7. I then researched force-feeding ducks properly. I watered down her feed, and did so, while she stayed in her pool. After about 12 hours she made MAJOR improvements. She then left the pool all on her own to go play, and hasn't had a seizure as far as I know in almost 2 days now. She does, however, seem to still enjoy lengthy time spent in the pool, but she gets in and out on her own.

8. She is even eating small amounts of her treats, all by herself! She is limping sometimes, and has fell a couple times, but still no seizures, and has walked nicely a few times. Her poop is still green.

9. I am writing now, because she seems to be raising her butt really high in the air, leaving it that way, standing on one leg, appearing to be contracting. These were her first symptoms when we first discovered that she had swallowed the coins and took her to the vet, assuming she was egg bound, because she is almost of age. My questions are... IS THERE ANYTHING MORE I CAN DO? Or is this all about to repeat? Does it sound like she is getting better? Has anyone has the exact same situation happen to them? I've only found stories of partial reference to hers. Anyone?

 

[Miss Lydia]

If anyone reads this and knows any answers, I could really use some advice. We went to the vet, and have done so much research, but there are so many unanswered questions.

I love my ducks so very much, and cannot bare the thought of either of them suffering.

I have 2 ducks, both 5 months:

1. Amelia (Pekin, Female)
2. Dark Wing aka DW ( Rouen, Male)

Amelia has been sick for 2 weeks now. All that she has been through, I couldn't possibly expect anyone to read the lengths that it extends. I will try to keep this short, and not bore anyone with my sobbing/crying, but I REALLY love her and hope someone has some advice. I feel as I have exhausted all possibilities. She is an indoor/outdoor duck. Amelia and DW are always at each others sides. Here is the short version of what happened in week 1, to what is happening now:

1. Amelia swallowed 3 coins (for the record, we know better than to leave anything of the such in easy access, there were unusual circumstances) Metal of course is poison to her.

2. We took her to the vet, who gave us the special calcium shots, but did not recommend surgery, due to the high risks. It was a 4 day treatment.

3. The first 2 days her side-effects started improve. Such as walking again, not limping as much, and eating more. One thing that has not changed this entire time is her green/watery poop and constant thirst.

4. Then, the worst part... she started having these horrible seizures. They've lasted about 4 days, and started getting more frequent. Sometimes she'd have them minutes apart. The only vet we had a choice of had gone on vacation.

5. She stopped eating completely. She was burning up, so I put her in her little duck pool. She didn't want to leave it, and if I tried to take her out, she immediately went into a seizure. Her pool is only a few inches deep, so I wasn't worried about her staying in it while having a seizure. She officially stayed in her mini-pond without leaving for nearly 2 days.

6. I researched more and more over all of this. Adding more Niacin to her feed, trying her favorite treats: dried meal worms, tomatoes, boiled egg, and even watering it down for her. It wasn't working.

7. I then researched force-feeding ducks properly. I watered down her feed, and did so, while she stayed in her pool. After about 12 hours she made MAJOR improvements. She then left the pool all on her own to go play, and hasn't had a seizure as far as I know in almost 2 days now. She does, however, seem to still enjoy lengthy time spent in the pool, but she gets in and out on her own.

8. She is even eating small amounts of her treats, all by herself! She is limping sometimes, and has fell a couple times, but still no seizures, and has walked nicely a few times. Her poop is still green.

9. I am writing now, because she seems to be raising her butt really high in the air, leaving it that way, standing on one leg, appearing to be contracting. These were her first symptoms when we first discovered that she had swallowed the coins and took her to the vet, assuming she was egg bound, because she is almost of age. My questions are... IS THERE ANYTHING MORE I CAN DO? Or is this all about to repeat? Does it sound like she is getting better? Has anyone has the exact same situation happen to them? I've only found stories of partial reference to hers. Anyone?

Hi and

Reading Amelias story is heartbreaking what you all have been through. Did you actually see her eat the coins? and did they do an xray to verify she did and where they were located? seems she would have passed them by now, what did the vet say about that? Sounds like she is improving and when you said about her raising her butt in the air made me think about a hen that is getting ready to start to lay and does the sorry I forget what it's called but they will drop down with butt raised like for a roo to mate them. But if this was her first symptoms at the beginning then I am not sure. She maybe getting ready to lay an egg, does she have a quiet place out of traffic where she can go to have her time if need be? a dog crate, with nice soft bedding? I wish i could say more but hopefully someone else will be able to give better advise, just wanted you to know someone is here to listen. When bird has ingested a toxin there are flushes you can administer to help them rid them out of their systems, don't know if it would work in the instance but I'll get it for you and hopefully in the mean time someone will be here. Here is the link but I am not sure if this would work in Amelias case but read and see what you think. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/700526/flushes-for-aiding-in-toxin-removal

 

[jdywntr]

Did you see her eat the coins? It would most likely be zinc poisoning from the coins. The problem here is that the coin may not pass and can be imbedded in the lining of the digestive tract. If you are SURE that she ate the coins, I mean 100%, you may want to contact an avian or barnyard vet in your area to discuss surgery. At the least, I would contact a specialist to discuss treatment options. If the vet that you saw is not a specialist or is still out of town, ask their office for a referal. Even a phone call may give you some help and should be able to tell you if surgery would be recommended. I know that in a dog, if the coins didn't pass, surgery would be recommended.

It seems that if her symptoms are returning after getting better after some treatment she may still have the coins in her system. Also, the coins could have caused damage that may be permanent. Seizures can also cause permanent neurological damage since the brain is involved in a seizure.

I would continue with what you are doing as it seems to be helping. I agree with Miss Lydia in that a flush will be helpful.

Sorry that I can't be of more help. Good luck with Amelia and keep us posted.

FYI, recovery can take a while. I've had a duck that looked to be on death's door and was going to cull her but after about 10 days total of not walking, standing and eating (for many of the days) she started to recover.


Edited to add
Her poop my be off for a bit due to the coins, the medication, and/or the increase in water consumption.

 

[Amiga]

Something else you could try is activated charcoal in her water. NOT briquettes for barbecue, activated charcoal is a supplement that is used to absorb toxins from the digestive tract. It might help pull residual metals out of her gut. You could also look into other supplements that might support her system and help her rebuild, if that is at all possible.

The flushing might also be something to consider.

 

[Amelia-DarkWing]

Thank You everyone for replying! And thank you for your concern. I really appreciate it. Yes, I am pretty sure they are coins... however I did not see her swallow any coins, but when we took her to the vet, she did an x-ray and showed us the pictures of the 3 perfectly round metal images in her stomach. The vet had told me that she was certain she swallowed the coins, which is why she gave me the 4 shots, and then warned me about the risks of surgery, but this was before she started having seizures. I was saying that, I already took her to the vet, who gave me the shots, but now the vet is on vacation, so I'm trying to do what I can from home until she gets back.
*** About the charcoal advice... that's a new one that I really appreciate! I'm going to look into that now! THANK YOU ALL AGAIN SO MUCH! I will keep an update: currently she is still seizure free (big smiles), but still eating little, wobbling, and being quiet.

 

[Amiga]

I would also consider giving her vitamins with probiotics. This is a tough one. But keep giving her TLC. If calcium is helpful, you could try to get some calcium gluconate. It comes in a liquid form and can be added to food or water. Then of course there is oyster shell or even clean ground up egg shell.

 

[Miss Lydia]

I have to say I finally found the Activated charcoal at Walmart.. LOl I was looking in the supplement dept. when it was in the antacid dept all along. So I have now added it to my med chest. Thanks Amiga for the info. Sure hope Amelia starts to feel better soon.

 

[duckmamma]

Do you think your duck swallowed a few dimes, then? From what I can see online...dimes from 1965 to the present are composed of outer layers of 75 percent copper and 25 percent nickel, bonded to a pure copper core. So, your duck could be suffering from copper toxicity (don't see anything yet on nickel toxicity but I'm sure it's somewhere).
At any rate...here's what lafebervet.com website lists as treatment for birds with heavy metal toxicity (including copper and probably nickel toxicity), by treatment, I mean treatment aside from having the metal objects surgically removed or having the bird pass them:

There are three goals for treatment of heavy metal toxicity:

• Stabilize the patient by providing supportive care such as supplemental heat, fluids to prevent dehydration and medication to stop tremors or seizures.
• Remove heavy metal from bodily tissues with a binding or chelating agent:
  
  • Calcium EDTA (Calcium disodium versenate, 3M Pharmaceuticals) 30-35 mg/kg IM BID x 5 days
  • Dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA or Succimer) 25 mg/kg PO SID x 10 days. In a study evaluating chelating agents in cockatiels. Although DMSA is administered orally, it may be easier than other chelating agents for bird owners to administer at home, however, DMSA has a narrow margin of safety so this drug should always be used with caution (Denver 2000).
  • D-Penicillamine (Cuprimine, Merck) 30 mg/kg PO BID x 7 days minimum

I'm trying to find you a source for the calcium EDTA or the DMSA...actually, I have some DMSA if you'd like it...had it to treat mercury toxicity on myself. I know that you can also use bentonite solution to treat toxicity in general, which is sold at The Vitamin Shoppe and other fine health food stores. To detoxify your duck with bentonite solution, I would use a tb. of bentonite solution to about 1/2 cup of spring water on empty stomach, throughout the day inbetween meals. I don't think the bentonite would suffice on its own in the long run, however.
The avianweb website says that activated charcoal is not effective at treating heavy metal toxicity in birds:
Activated Charcoal

• As an effective adsorbent for toxicants,give activated charcoal with a gavage tube.
• Dosage of activated charcoal is 1-3 g/kg (or 1-3 mg/g body weight)
• Activated charcoal is not very effective in absorbing petroleum distillates, corrosiveagents and most heavy metals.

The same website says that bulking agents are only effective if you're trying to get your bird to pass smallish pieces...don't know if they'd work for dimes or nickels, but you could always try:

Bulking Cathartics

• Bulking agents can be useful in removing small solid objects, such as lead paint chips,from the bird’s GI tract.
• One-half teaspoon psyllium (Metamucil
  
  ) mixed with 60 ml baby food gruel is administered with a dosing syringe or eyedropper. Repeat to ensure completeremoval of the objects 1-2 times daily.

 

[duckmamma]

Normally DMSA is an Rx only item, but you can order DMSA online from from one place called Vitamin Research Products. They're an excellent company used by people who buy top-quality supplements. Here it is in the newer 25 mg size:

http://www.vrp.com/digestive-health/dmsa

To translate the dosing directions for DMSA that I had in my last post:

"25 mg/kg PO SID" means.... give your duck 25 mg of powder for each 2.2 lbs of the duck's body weight, by mouth, once a day. It dissolves in water and is best taken on an empty stomach.Follow it with generous access to water to flush the toxins out.

I can tell you that DMSA will nauseate the duck if you give it the whole 25 mg at first... I'd start off with a smaller dose, such as 10 mg...the duck will probably feel nauseous anyway while the toxins are being flushed out, so you don't want to overwhelm it and make it weaker than necessary. But strange situation in that you'll have to treat your duck for a few days on, and a few days off, until the objects either pass or are surgically removed. If you can't swing the surgery, then you may have to come up with a long-term detox plan for your little tyke with as low a dosage as possible...maybe you could start off with the DMSA to be aggressive, then switch to the much more agreeable but milder bentonite solution after that.

 

[duckmamma]

I'm wondering if your duck is straining to pass the coins, from the symptoms that have you befuddled (butt up in the air, etc.). If so, perhaps some psyllium added to a little applesauce to hydrate it, would help the duck pass the coins? Do you think they're dimes or pennies, or nickels, or no idea?