Sick Hen - Lethargic, stands w/ eyes closed

[amyhbass]

Hi - I am new here & new with chickens. I've had my chickens (light brahmas) for ~3 mo - never wormed or de-loused. All seem fine but this one, except for somewhat poopy vents ( I read this is common with light-colored fluffy breeds, which they are) & poops on the ground look fine. I don't see any worms. The sick one has been standing around for 2 days, lethargic & not going to roost on her own at night - stands around with her eyes closed mostly - poop is very watery but color seems normal (not yellow or white or foamy). I examined her and see no obvious problem - no worms in the poop on her feathers, no hardness around vent or crop, no bumps or redness on skin. She coughs occasionally, and it sounds phlegmy. I am going to isolate her (indoors) and treat her with something, but I'm not sure what. Should I give her an antibiotic (teramycin?) first or wormer (Wazine?) or delouse (with what?). I've been reading here & understand now that I need to de-worm & de-louse the whole group reguarly, but what should I do immediately for this sick one? I called my vet & he had no idea about chickens, and I looked on the internet for another vet around here (Dothan, AL) that might help and found nothing. I would appreciate your input.
Thank you - Amy

 

[casportpony]

If she were mine I would:

• Bring inside right away.
• Weigh and record weight. I use a cheap digital kitchen scale from Target.
• Do thorough exam.
• Dust for mites/lice with poultry dust even if I couldn't see any .
• De-worm with Safeguard for Goats/Cattle (fenbendazole 100mg/ml) at the rate of 50mg/kg ( .5cc/kg) by mouth.
• Place in box or plastic bin with access to food, water and heat.
• If not eating and crop is empty, tube feed Pedialyte. Once hydrated, tube feed baby bird food.
• Watch closely for 24 hours.
• Weigh daily.

 

[farmtotable]

PS - don't worry about making "terrible newbie mistakes", because that's the only way you learn!

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Yeah ... you never wanna bring new birds directly around your flock(s), and you wanna clean up both before and after you go near 'em ... change out your shoes, too. Hopefully, this will work itself out, 'n they'll all be fine.

You were wise to isolate her, but it's most probably somethin' they've all got at this point. You should not give 'em antibiotics w/o knowing what you are treating, as you can't know which (if any) will do 'em any good, w/o knowing which virus/bacteria you're dealin' w/ (or, it could be parasites, or mold, or some other cause).

And, from now on? Start a thread, the minute you notice your chicken(s) have symptoms ... time is of the essence, w/ many illnesses/diseases.

For certain, give all your birds an astringent solution of Apple Cider Vinegar at the rate of four teaspoons to the gallon (but never in galvanized metal containers). This will help them to more easily expel mucus, as the tannin in ACV 'cuts through' the coatings in the mouth, throat and intestines, which improves the uptake of nutrients/vitamins. This also creates a more hostile environment for internal parasites, which your flock may well have.

I'm a big fan of Amprolium for coccidia, and fenbendazole for helminths (except I would suggest albendazole, if tapeworms were present). There can, indeed, be heavy loads of internal parasites, even when no worms or eggs can be found w/in their poop. As for treating when they're terribly ill? Amprolium blocks thiamine, which coccidia are 50 times more sensitive to than the chickens are. And, fenbendazole has been tested and proven safe at 100 times the suggested dosage of 10 mg/kg -- however, I've studied many abstracts of studies which show that 20 mg/kg is req'd, so as to eliminate most nearly all gapeworms. The same dosage of 20 mg/kg holds true for albendazole, so as to more effectively treat tapeworms (which fenbendazole will not do).

There are links in my signature that will open in a new window ... read through the diagnosis of diseases based upon symptoms, but first w/o tryin' to identify her illness/disease: This will help to train you better in how to recognize specific symptoms that most folks would overlook. Then, study your flock for a while from a distance, in the hopes of finding others showing any symptoms. Same w/ the sick bird ... then, be sure 'n update this thread ~'-)

 

[dawg53]

Worm them with valbazen liquid cattle/sheep wormer. Dosage is 1/2cc orally undiluted, use a syringe without a needle to administer. Redose again in 10 days. You dont need to see worms in poop in order for them to have worms and the signs are there. Also, pick them up and visually inspect them for lice/mites, especially around the vent area. External parasites prefer moist areas to feed and breed.
Dont give them antibiotics.

 

[casportpony]

And furthermore, Valbazen is just for roundworms! Chickens can pick up a whole variety of worms. If you're going to do it at all use a broad spectrum dewormer that are usually a lot easier to tolerate than just roundworm medicine. Free range flocks usually do not get worm infestations, but chickens in a pen can. I don't think this is worms, it would not cause coughing.

I think you meant to say that Wazine (piperazine) is just for roundworms. Valbazen is the only wormer that gets *all* worms, including tapes. I use Safeguard for Goats/Cattle (fenbendazole 100mg/ml).

 

[dawg53]

Cafarmgirl and Casportpony thank you for explaining how valbazen kills all known types worms that chickens can get. The classic symptoms of worms are in the OP's first post in this thread. Respiratory symptoms arnt described by the OP, antibiotics are not needed. I stand by my recommendation for worming.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Hi - I don't have a way to weight her yet. If I assume she weighs 4 kg, it looks like (from your 0.5cc/kg) that I should give her 2 cc of the SafeGuard dewormer (100 mg/mL suspension). Is this correct?
She's still doing about the same - hanging in there, looking around some - mostly sleeping, but not walking around - sitting in nesting posture. She won't eat or drink on her own, but I'm keeping her hydrated and giving her yogurt and pediasure. Should I mix some dog food (canned) in with it?
Thanks so much!

I'm guessin' that a three-month-old light brahma doesn't weight quite that much ... all those feathers make 'em look far bigger than they actually are, and I'd bet she's closer to five pounds or so ...

​

Not that overdosing w/ fenbendazole worries me too terribly much, save for the dangers that killin' too many worms too quickly might present, but there's no point in calculating milligrams when you're guessing about kilograms (sorta like me asking you to estimate how many marbles it'd take to fill a bucket of an undisclosed size ~'-)

Rather than quoting the many studies all over again (here's a focused google search for that), I will remind that doctors have a tendency to over-medicate; that they 'shoot rabbits w/ cannons' as our good ol' family doctor puts it. To me? It makes the most sense to determine the minimum amount required to achieve the desire result ... when it comes to fenbendazole? That's 20 mg/kg of body weight, for three consecutive days.

 

[dawg53]

Well, she didn't make it. I did manage to weigh her - she had dropped to about 4.5 pounds (she was a full grown brahma hen, so she should have wieghed 8-9 pounds). I dusted her early today, and found that she was infested with lice when I checked her again later (the dead lice were clearly visible on top of her white feathers). I gave her the worm medicine (1 cc Safeguard suspension) this afternoon. She was really nasty with poop from sitting in one spot for a couple of days, so we wanted to wash her off a bit. We waited until this evening, set her in a dish tub with a couple inches of warm water, and were very gently rinsing her off underneath. She was doing pretty well and was alert and all, but then she just started spazzing and died. I guess the washing was just too much stress in her weakened state. I let her rest for hours between each thing, but she was just too far gone. What I think is that the lice (and possibly worms as well - don't know) weakened her enough that she became sick with some sort of respiratory disease, and it killed her. I will be dusting the rest of the flock tomorrow. Some of them are coughing a bit. Hopefully they will gain strength enough to get well on their own if I get rid of the lice. How often do you all dust your chickens? Do you do it twice a year, when you are worming them? - or more often? Again - thank you all for your concern and your helpful advice.

Sorry you lost her. External/internal parasites weaken a birds immune system to the point that they are susceptable to all kinds of diseases; bacterial, viral, or fungal. I recommend sevin dust to dust all your birds, redust them again in 7-10 days to kill nits hatched from eggs. Dust inside their coop, nests and roosts. Repeat again in 7-10 days.
As far as worming goes, it depends on your soil how often you should worm. If your soil is warm and moist most of the year, you may need to worm several times a year. I worm my birds once every 3 months or sooner, especially this past year with the 2 tropical storms we've had and afternoon storms. If you live in an area where the soil is cold mountainous or rocky, or very hot desertlike soil....you may need to only worm once a year. It all depends on your environment. I do not recommend worming during molt. The birds are already stressed during molt and use all their resources to regrow feathers, no need to increase stress. Some people still worm during molt, if you do, dont use fenbendazole/panacur. It will cause regrowing feathers to be blunted and crooked. The safest wormer on the market is valbazen (albendazole) cattle/sheep wormer.
Valbazen slowly kills all types of worms over a 3-5 day period of time. There's no need to worry about toxic dead worm overload using valbazen. Redose again with valbazen in 10 days after the initial worming to kill larva hatched from eggs.

 

[amyhbass]

Oh - forgot to mention - her stance is with her tail down. She's not losing feathers. She doesn't run away when I go to handle her, but she does walk away a few steps after I do.