Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[thedragonlady]

Blue.

He almost looks chocolate on my monitor.

 

[heirloomorps]

He almost looks chocolate on my monitor.

Wow, really? Chocolate Silkies.

I just went to look at the pic again and I think it's the light.



He looks more blue here, right? This was taken about 3 months ago when we thought he was a she.

 

[chooketychook]

Lool he was licking them,seeing which one was the best flavour I guess hehe xx

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Buffs are not supposed to be light. WAY too many are WAY too light. Here are some photos, mostly from feathersite, of correctly coloured buffs of various breeds.










These are red:



If you look at photos on the websites of those who have been breeding buff silkies for a good long while, you will find that most of them have richly coloured birds.

 

[Feathersprings]

Ok, once again I have more confusion than explanations... so I need some genetics help.

Here is the situation. I have a pair of Partridges. They came from a very good Breeder selected as a BQ pair through somebody in California who bought them and later decided to breed different colors instead. I bought the rooster and the hen from her. They were in quarantine for 35 days because I didn't have their coop finished. None of my roosters ever had access to the hen or rooster, both were kept in a dog crate and let out in a small cage to enjoy the grass - away from my other birds. The original owner also gave me a dozen eggs from the trio (she kept the other female) for me to set. I set those eggs under a broody - only one hatched and it was white. All the others never started (infertile?). We thought the white one was a mis-marked egg from her white pen. Now I am not so sure.

After I finished their run and put them in it (added a hen but her eggs are brown - very different and easily separable). I collected 10 eggs from the Partridge hen once she started laying almost at the end of quarantine and afterwards and set them. They were all infertile and none hatched. I then ate her eggs until I noticed they were showing signs of being fertile (a week?). I then started collecting for a second incubation. I kept the light eggs (partridge hen) and ate the dark eggs (black silkie cross hen, black skin, 5 toes, regular feathers, single comb). Near the end of my collection the other hen went broody. She was sitting on the eggs I collected - so I put the 9 I had in the incubator to start them. I then added a 10th and an 11th in the two following days. I let the broody collect the eggs the Partridge was laying, and shortly thereafter the brown eggs stopped and I only had the light eggs being laid. About a week after she went broody another hen went broody so I stopped letting her collect them and removed the new unmarked eggs and gave them to the second broody (musical eggs - I know). I marked those eggs with the date and the name of the Partridge hen as the other girl was not laying any longer - only the Partridge Girl by now. A few days later I added another girl into the Partridge pen - a Blue Silkie. She laid maybe two or three eggs - and then went broody with her daughter. Her eggs are also identifiable - longer, pointed and white. Those three and 5 from the Partridge hen went to the other broody. Two days after the Blue hen joined the Partridge hen decided it looked like fun to - so all eggs stopped and I had three broodies..in one 12x12 milk crate!

Fast forward to incubator hatching date. The ones in the incubator hatched - I got two Partridge chicks and three BLACK chicks from those eggs. The others died in the shell - but there were more black and more Partridge chicks when I egg-topsied them. One Black was vaulted skull, one had something wrong with its legs (put down), the two Partridge chicks had light/white/green skin. I posted on here because I was confused and was told that you could have Black chicks based on Partridge coloring. Ok....

The eggs under the broody hatched. 3 Chipmunk, one Black two WHITE and a really odd grey/whiteish one! Not only are those white but they all have 4 toes! At first I considered that the other girl may have contributed some eggs - changed her egg color or something - but she went broody while I was collecting and stopped - so two, three - maybe. Except she is black - the rooster is Partridge..

Fast forward another two weeks - and I had to take the 8 eggs away from the third broody as she got off and abandoned the nest (Frizzle - not a good mommy). Two of them hatched this morning. I know these are from the Partridge rooster and the Partridge Hen as they are eggs marked with the date and the Partridge hen's name - I have one Partridge and one silvery looking black. Now for the kicker - both of them have 4 toes!

The Silvery black does have 5 toes on one foot - and 4 on the other. These were not put in an incubator - I can't blame temperature fluctuations for suppressing the 5 toed gene. Once again - the partridge is lighter skinned (green). These eggs are marked with dates from before I put the Blue hen in with the rooster, so they are not her eggs. I have already hatched eggs from the Blue hen and my other Silkie rooster - all those chicks have 5 toes and dark skin.

As far as the other chicks: The original incubator Partridge chicks' skin has darkened up to normal. However - BOTH of the Partridge chick's feathers are coming in normal feathers - not silkied! There were no other roosters in the pen - no other donations from before I got them (remember 10 infertile eggs?)... these chicks are from that pair. The valuted chick is doing fine but the other black is developing a cross beak.

This is driving me crazy - it doesn't make sense!

Thinking about it - I thought of something. If these birds - male and female - are full blooded brother and sister from a line of line breeding - would this cause these type of problems? I know inbreeding among animals will cause defects - so I was wondering if it could cause 4 toes - crooked beaks - black or white or ?? from a Partridge pair.... The previous owner only hatched about 7 chicks from the pair - and she had another female she hatched from also. I wonder if the two I have should not be bred together - because something sure isn't right!

Any insight into what may be gong on here would really help. They are both very nice looking birds, nothing showing on their phenotype to suggest these hidden problems. They are both silkied, black skinned, 5 toed, and the rooster is vaulted and the hen is not. Both traditional Partridge coloring.

Help?

Gees, I just cant see this. Not from the genetics involved, but from the hatches I had from this pair. Another interesting thing is that the Partridge hens eggs were darker than my other hens eggs... but of course color is relative to what you are comparing to. I never had them with anything other than just the partridge pair and then added the partridge pullet I didnt sell. She had just started laying and none of the chicks were hers with the exception of the possibility of one of the last two chicks.



The two partridge in this pic were the last I had from them...the others from white eggs.


These are the others from hatches from them, never on off color, no 4 toes or crossed beaks unless it would have developed after they left here.

 

[ChickNmamma]

Quote:
I know - it just doesn't make any sense to me at all! Last chicks have hatched from under the broody - these eggs were collected when the other possible doner from that coop was a week to two weeks along broody... and the results are: One Partridge - 4 toes, 1 Silver Black - 5 toes and 1 Silver Black - 4 toes! And 2 infertile and 4 early quitters (blood ring or black blobs). I have hatched 12 of the eggs I believed to be hers - and only have two possibly correct partridge babies.. with silkied feathers and 5 toes.. that's it! Hmm... looking at your baby pictures - not one of the chicks I have look like that. Not even the "correct" Partridges. They are all very yellow chicks.. or those black or white chicks

See?

I think I will get rid of this whole lot of chicks (except the two yellow "correct" ones, they will go in the other pen) and try again next year. Anybody want a bunch of PQ Silkies? The eggs I incubated match the eggs you gave me when I bought the pair. In both coloring and shape. I thought Minkie started laying in quarantine and none of them were fertile the first time around, so I thought I knew what her eggs looked like. I kept all the shells of the ones that hatched - so I can go back and look for any anomalies. I had two darker "pointy" ones in that final batch that I am pretty sure came from the Blue hen (the pointy is her signature) - neither of those were fertile, I had just put her in with the rooster so that was understandable.

It is possible.. if Minkie's eggs are really dark I ate hers and incubated the Silkie crosses eggs (Dixi) (which I thought were the darker ones.. maybe not). I have Dixi in another coop now - I will have to see what her eggs look like when she starts laying again. But that would also mean that Dixi laid for three weeks after she went broody - and Minki stopped laying a week after Dixi went broody - but still went into the nest once a day and came out?

Minkie is now being a broody - and sitting on air. I have the other Blue hen as mommy in the coop. Hopefully Minkie will get over the broody and start laying again - so I can see what color eggs she lays. It would make a lot more sense if I had incubated Dixi's eggs and got all those anomalies because she is black - she could carry white - she is a cross so she only has one 5 toed gene - maybe Jazz has only one too... that would give smooth feathered chicks - and 4 toed chicks - and that might make sense!

Thank you for the information that Minkie's eggs are dark - that might explain the whole mess...

 

[Feathersprings]

I know - it just doesn't make any sense to me at all! Last chicks have hatched from under the broody - these eggs were collected when the other possible doner from that coop was a week to two weeks along broody... and the results are: One Partridge - 4 toes, 1 Silver Black - 5 toes and 1 Silver Black - 4 toes! And 2 infertile and 4 early quitters (blood ring or black blobs). I have hatched 12 of the eggs I believed to be hers - and only have two possibly correct partridge babies.. with silkied feathers and 5 toes.. that's it! Hmm... looking at your baby pictures - not one of the chicks I have look like that. Not even the "correct" Partridges. They are all very yellow chicks.. or those black or white chicks

See?

I think I will get rid of this whole lot of chicks (except the two yellow "correct" ones, they will go in the other pen) and try again next year. Anybody want a bunch of PQ Silkies? The eggs I incubated match the eggs you gave me when I bought the pair. In both coloring and shape. I thought Minkie started laying in quarantine and none of them were fertile the first time around, so I thought I knew what her eggs looked like. I kept all the shells of the ones that hatched - so I can go back and look for any anomalies. I had two darker "pointy" ones in that final batch that I am pretty sure came from the Blue hen (the pointy is her signature) - neither of those were fertile, I had just put her in with the rooster so that was understandable.

It is possible.. if Minkie's eggs are really dark I ate hers and incubated the Silkie crosses eggs (Dixi) (which I thought were the darker ones.. maybe not). I have Dixi in another coop now - I will have to see what her eggs look like when she starts laying again. But that would also mean that Dixi laid for three weeks after she went broody - and Minki stopped laying a week after Dixi went broody - but still went into the nest once a day and came out?

Minkie is now being a broody - and sitting on air. I have the other Blue hen as mommy in the coop. Hopefully Minkie will get over the broody and start laying again - so I can see what color eggs she lays. It would make a lot more sense if I had incubated Dixi's eggs and got all those anomalies because she is black - she could carry white - she is a cross so she only has one 5 toed gene - maybe Jazz has only one too... that would give smooth feathered chicks - and 4 toed chicks - and that might make sense!

Thank you for the information that Minkie's eggs are dark - that might explain the whole mess...

Not only are they darker but they were also pointy as I remember...

 

[PaintedFeathers]

Buffs are not supposed to be light. WAY too many are WAY too light. Here are some photos, mostly from feathersite, of correctly coloured buffs of various breeds.










These are red:



If you look at photos on the websites of those who have been breeding buff silkies for a good long while, you will find that most of them have richly coloured birds.

Maybe it's my monitor but I still think he looks red, like that red silkie picture you posted? I will look again.

Nope... just looked again on a completely different computer... he looks mahogany red?

 

[TNBarnQueen]

@Dragonlady....I have finally found the Nutrical for my little hen. She has gotten better but is still snotty and smelly.? The drainage is clear but I think the smell is coming from what she has rubber in her crest. She is eating but not as well as I would like for her to. Her eyes have cleared up but still run. I am still using the nose drops and giving her Sulmet (day 12). Should I keep her on it longer or change to another antibiotic? I have Duramyicin 10, Tylan and I think I have Terramyicin too. Wish I could give her a sudifed or find a way to make her blow her nose. It is driving me crazy!
As if that is not enough I woke up to find one walking around holding it's head sideways. I just really need a vacation.
Thanks Dragonlady..I do appreciate your and anyones help.

 

[PaintedFeathers]

@Dragonlady....I have finally found the Nutrical for my little hen. She has gotten better but is still snotty and smelly.? The drainage is clear but I think the smell is coming from what she has rubber in her crest. She is eating but not as well as I would like for her to. Her eyes have cleared up but still run. I am still using the nose drops and giving her Sulmet (day 12). Should I keep her on it longer or change to another antibiotic? I have Duramyicin 10, Tylan and I think I have Terramyicin too. Wish I could give her a sudifed or find a way to make her blow her nose. It is driving me crazy!
As if that is not enough I woke up to find one walking around holding it's head sideways. I just really need a vacation.
Thanks Dragonlady..I do appreciate your and anyones help.

If it smells it is probably canker, is there any yellow crud around her face and in her throat? I believe the treatment is metronidazol? You can order fish zole online, it's the same thing. You'll have to look up the dose. As for the one holding it's head sideways, Wryneck. But i'm sure you know that. Do you know how to treat?