Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[flocknfoal]

Partridge has red/gold and no silver and no blue/splash. The photo colours aren't too good, so I cannot tell if he is splash plus red or silver plus possibly splash and plus red. Or blue intad of splash in either of those two possibilities... But yes, he is a mixed colour, definitely not partridge

~~Thank you Sonoran. I've been waiting for a sunny day to try and get some better pictures. This shows the hackle coloring a bit better I think:




He looked splash when he was younger, so I think splash plus red? I also have a little white hen from a white hen / buff rooster cross. She is broody now (hatch due next week) which got me curious about possible colors of the chicks, so I've been doing some research and ... wow. As far as I can tell the color possibilities are pretty much a crapshoot. Put your hand in a big bucket of marbles and who knows what you will get. Anyhow, in my research, your name seems comes up a lot so I'm wondering whether you could suggest a really good book on silkie color genetics for beginners? Browsing the web for info is taking too much time since I might get halfway through an article before I realize the author isn't really as educated as he or she seems to be at first. - Thanks!

 

[Adoravachick]

From "Oh Girl!"

TO
"Oh BOY"
It's great to see how these little loves can change.

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

What do you guys think?
This is my cockerel Early, he's still less than a year old. 10 or 11 months, I'm having a brain fart at present. Anyway, he's got a smidge of leakage on the back of his neck, its very light tho. I can't tell if its silver or gold. Other than his lovely beetle green sheen, he's a very dark black. I think his wings could be a little tighter, but other than that and his leakage, I'm pretty pleased with him.
One of my hens, Wendy. She's almost 2. I put some of her eggs in my incubator, they're fertilized by the cockerel above.

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

More Early

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Splash plus a LOT of red! I've never seen so much! Very striking! I like you analogy about the marbles--I use analogies a lot when I try to explain things. How much genetics do you know? One starting place is Genetics of Chickencolors and Basics

 

[flocknfoal]

Splash plus a LOT of red! I've never seen so much! Very striking! I like you analogy about the marbles--I use analogies a lot when I try to explain things. How much genetics do you know? One starting place is Genetics of Chickencolors and Basics

Even though he's not "standard" (I was told he was bred in a BBS only pen) I still think he is pretty, and a sweet guy at that. I can't think of any project I could start with these colors, but since he's currently my only silkie roo, I may hatch some eggs from him and a blue hen I have just for fun.

How much do I know? .... that's relative I guess. A whole lot less than you do, lol, but I'm beginning to get some of the basics. I love the plain & simple explanations on the site you posted and the related pages (the list of genes and symbols is great too). So I guess I'm looking for something similar in the simplicity of the explanations, but that continues on a bit deeper. I'm a curious person. I wonder about things... for example

Bl is Andalusian Blue. In BBS breeding, Bl/bl+ appears blue, Bl/Bl appears splash, and bl+/bl+ appears black. right? But E is extended black, so I'm guessing that the blue gene is on a different locus than the E gene, and all of these also have the E gene with the Bl modifier? And would they be EE or Ee? It seems Ee would be not complete (would be stippled?) so I'm guessing EE?

And similar questions about white - there's dominant white (I) and lack of dominant white (i) and recessive white or colorless (c) with the dominant form of colorless being C - "lack of recessive white mutations" (hard to wrap my brain around that one). I'm guessing most white silkie lines (as opposed to individual birds) are cc but is that on the same locus as Dominant White I or could they also have an I gene and if they did or didn't what, if any, impact would this have?

And Lavender - I love the lavender silkies. They appear (phenotype?) white with a blue tint, so at first glance one might think they are Dominant White (I) with Andalusian blue (Bl). However genetically I know that lav is diluted black so does that mean that they have the E gene plus the lav gene to modify E? Do they also have some form of I or c? I can see why crossing with Blue wouldn't help their coloring, but what impact, if any, would crossing with some form of white, or.... or... or...

Obviously I'm not asking you to try and answer all my questions (haha) just trying to give examples of what kinds of questions I have. It's just all so fun and interesting, but I can only do so much breeding per year to find these things out. The gene calculator sounds cool, but I doubt it provides explanations, so there must be more books that go into more detail, but in a plain English sort of way so that I'm not too lost. It would be nice if there was something specific to silkies since they are unlikely to be impacted by some of the things other chickens breeders are interested in such as certain feather patterns that don't show up on silkies.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Did you read the link I posted? Another very good resource is http://chickengenetics.edelras.nl/ The site is hosted by Henk, but the work is by Kazjaps, another extremely knowledgeable poultry genetics person from Australia. She is not on BYC, but is a frequent contributor at The Coop.

 

[flocknfoal]

~~Even though he's not "standard" (I was told he was bred in a BBS only pen) I still think he is pretty, and a sweet guy at that. I can't think of any project I could start with these colors, but since he's currently my only silkie roo, I may hatch some eggs from him and a blue hen I have just for fun.

~And that may get you a calico girl

Never heard of a calico silkie - sounds pretty.

~~Bl is Andalusian Blue. In BBS breeding, Bl/bl+ appears blue, Bl/Bl appears splash, and bl+/bl+ appears black. right? But E is extended black, so I'm guessing that the blue gene is on a different locus than the E gene, and all of these also have the E gene with the Bl modifier? And would they be EE or Ee? It seems Ee would be not complete (would be stippled?) so I'm guessing EE?

~There are a number of different alleles at the E-locus; I'm not sure that I've ever heard of one that was e+. Silkies are usually e^b, and blacks are usually E^R, albeit a unique variation of E^R. Buffs are sometimes E^Wh

According to http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html e^b would be partridge and E^R would be birchen and E^Wh is wheaten, is that right? That site also lists e+ as "Female: breast is salmon brown and devoid of stippling, body is black and brown in stippled pattern. Males: black breast and abdomen; non-black hackle, saddle and wings." but I'm not sure how that would look in a silkie.

~White is not a diluter; it is an eraser. You will not get pale blue by adding white to a blue bird. White prevents pigment, but if/when pigment leaks through, it is undiluted by the white. Other genes present may, however, dilute it or enhance it.

Ah, yes, that makes sense, both in theory and in what I've seen.

~With the exception of the sex-linked genes (in which hens have only one copy), every chicken has two of every gene there is in the chicken genome; what differs is which two alleles of each gene a bird has.

Ok, I understand. I had been thinking that the gene symbol indicated only the gene property and that the location of the gene pair was indicated by a number (pair 3 or 5, etc.), maybe I was thinking of chromosome number. Anyhow, what you are saying about them having two of every gene makes total sense. It's like they all have a full deck of cards, but what trumps what depends on the hand that is dealt.

~Did you read the link I posted? Another very good resource is http://chickengenetics.edelras.nl/ The site is hosted by Henk, but the work is by Kazjaps, another extremely knowledgeable poultry genetics person from Australia. She is not on BYC, but is a frequent contributor at The Coop.

Yes, I've read that page a couple of times now, as well as many (but not all) of the other pages on that site (not easy to find the menu or navigate but great info). I've also looked through some of the info on the chickengenetics.edelras page listed above, but haven't read it all yet. And I've done some reading at the Coop, and quite a few other sites. Every time I read something, it all begins to make a little more sense but I have a long way to go. Thank you so much for helping to clear up some of the questions! It's been a fun conversation. I looking forward to more in the future. So, do you have a degree in a related field, or are you an amazingly well educated amateur?

 

[flocknfoal]

Hi, I need some help with identifying colors. I just received a shipment of silkies from Ideal Poultry. I ordered an assortment of 25 plus 7 self-blue. Sadly there were 12 dead when they arrived. I know they will reimburse me, but that's not the point. I feel so badly about it! Anyhow, I'm trying to focus on the ones that made it. I'll be selling at least half of them locally, but I need some help identifying the colors.

I think the one on the right is splash, but is the other one partridge? EDIT: I just looked at some pictures online, and now I think both of these are probably partridge and maybe some of the ones that I thought were white or buff are actually splash?!?!?!




All four of these look like they have buff and bluish grey, though the two in the back have more grey, ideas? EDIT: Maybe the blue-gray on these indicates they are splash?


These are so light, I'm thinking they are white, but not sure?



And last, how do you tell dark blue from black when they are young?

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Hi, I need some help with identifying colors. I just received a shipment of silkies from Ideal Poultry. I ordered an assortment of 25 plus 7 self-blue. Sadly there were 12 dead when they arrived. I know they will reimburse me, but that's not the point. I feel so badly about it! Anyhow, I'm trying to focus on the ones that made it. I'll be selling at least half of them locally, but I need some help identifying the colors.

I think the one on the right is splash, but is the other one partridge? EDIT: I just looked at some pictures online, and now I think both of these are probably partridge and maybe some of the ones that I thought were white or buff are actually splash?!?!?!




All four of these look like they have buff and bluish grey, though the two in the back have more grey, ideas? EDIT: Maybe the blue-gray on these indicates they are splash?


These are so light, I'm thinking they are white, but not sure?



And last, how do you tell dark blue from black when they are young?

Black don;t have diluted down--these last are all blues. Blacks can have white or yellow, especially n bellies and wing tips, but they do not have any blue down.