Size Matters

[liz9910]

 

[5Sons Coop]

There is the food I am using and like I said earlier a little corn and table scrap as well. Is the something I can change to get larger eggs?

 

[BantamFan4Life]

Welcome to BYC! I'm glad you joined us!

 

[RonoKT]

London?  You're in London?  Oh, I loved my couple of weeks in London and rest of UK.  That photo over to the left was taken in Selfridge's on Oxford St.

The pineal gland has an affect on the hormones that affect growth.  It is affected by light.  The extra light will cause earlier maturity.  Any light from any source (red, blue, full spectrum) will be detected by the pineal gland even when the eyes are closed.

It's about day length.  It's also about whether or not there is a night.  It's also about whether the days are getting shorter or longer.

You didn't mention how old your chicks are, so forgive me if I am not speaking to the point.

If your chicks are 8 weeks or younger, then supposedly it doesn't matter.

After 8 weeks, though, it's good for home growers to just have the chicks on natural light.  Chicks are naturally raised at this time of year -- not surprisingly because hens are experiencing days that are lengthening and they are becoming fertile and returning to laying (if it's after their 2nd winter) or are increasing their laying if it's after their first winter.  When the temperature is right, some hens will go broody and start setting on those eggs.  I have three broodies myself right now.

But it's the days getting incrementally longer each day that alerts hens that it's time to start laying again because it's spring.  I've had many a hen that starts laying again right after Christmas (winter solstice).

If little chicks don't experience a night time, then they are in an unnatural state of hormone production.

Since you are providing some night time, you are in a different category.

I can't remember off the top of my head how the lighting is supposed to be done at the factory. 

I know chicks that are hatched by backyard chicken keepers (in Northern Hemisphere) in July and August won't usually lay until the following spring.  It doesn't matter when they turn 5 or 6 months old.  What matters is whether or not they've experienced a period of lengthening daylight each day.  A chick hatched in July was hatched after the summer solstice and will be raised completely in a period where the days are decreasing in length, so she most likely won't lay until sometime after the winter solstice and possibly not until February or March.  A June hatched chick is on the fence because "amount" of daylight is also included.  A June hatched chick may or may not start laying in the fall and continue throughout the winter.  May chicks are often fine and start laying in the fall.  I've read this and experienced it all myself.

So, to the point, I don't know about your chickens.  We are nearing the equinox.  Maybe with the sun setting later and later and you living at a high latitude will mean that you will be home from work during daylight soon. ????  And that this issue will resolve itself soon and won't extend past 12 weeks. ????

I don't know what to say.  You could research this further online.  The info is out there ... somewhere.  I researched it because I was trying to figure out why some of my chickens were laying smaller eggs than they should have been. 

What would work for me.  I have no idea if it would work for you.  It's fine to have the lights on 24/7 until age 8 weeks.  At 6 weeks chicks should be feathered out completely and can be outside, so I'd have mine outside in a coop.  I probably wouldn't be heating them any longer if most nights were somewhere in the 50s. 

But this is March, so I don't know.  Maybe I could set up a ceramic oil heater in the coop in a way that they couldn't get to it and get hurt or hurt it????  And that fire wasn't an issue.

I would have them in a coop with windows so that they had light throughout the day.  Then darkness would settle naturally.

When I got home, I would go out to the coop.  Turn on the regular light.  Give them a couple treats.  Hang out.  Play with them.  Or bring one up to the house with me (if I knew they didn't have mites).  Half an hour won't cause much disturbance.  I don't think this would cause any problem with later egg production.

I base that on some feeding schedules that are used by factories that did all the studies and were able to turn off the lights after 14 or so hours of light, but then turn them back on to increase food intake.  That little bit of time didn't affect the mature hens except to allow for an extra feeding.  It didn't cause them to think it was a new day either.

So I would feel safe with that.

Because you are exending the day to "average summer day lengths," they aren't getting that slow increase in day lengths that chickens naturally have.  Truly, though, think it through yourself.  You may come up with the answer yourself.  I mean, after all, it's not like you are keeping a red light on them all night, which would be detrimental.  Your chicks are still getting night time.

Research a bit yourself on how to light chicks and egg size issues.  You might be able to get away with it.  If you do end up turning off the light in May when the chicks are 14 weeks, I might just keep it on because the summer solstice is almost here and suddenly shortening the day for your 14-week-old chicks might in itself goof them up.  I don't know. 

A red heat lamp on all night, though, will, according to the experts, trigger the pineal gland and cause early maturity and the likelihood of egg laying commencement before the hen can get big enough to lay a big egg, resulting in eggs that will always be smaller than they would have been if the lights were left off. 

I think maybe I shouldn't answer questions when it's late.  I just start rambling and never stop.

I wish you and your chickies well.

I'm glad you like London, it's an amazing city although I look forward to a time when I can live a more rural life.

Your post has loads of great information and will be a starting point for me to look I to this, I was aware light had an effect but had bit been considering the long term effect.

I have chicks of various ages, the eldest are about to turn 8 weeks, so just in time to get them off the red light. I have a ceramic heat element that I will replace it with. The eldest would be fine without any heat but I as I have some younger chicks too, I need to keep
Some heat source. I will also stop extending their day, you are correct, soon I will be home in light (British summer time clock change is soon) and I can always put a light on while I am with them. They live in a greenhouse so other than my interventions they are fully aware of the nature light levels. I hatched them so early in the year, hoping to get eggs this year, so it makes sense to have the in only natural light.
The last chicks I had where Ross 308 and the recommendations from aviagen are for 23 hours of light for their whole lives. I did not give them 23 hours but I did extend the light through the dark winter months, as well as periodically giving them "midnight snacks"'with the lights. They where for meat not eggs though so I do need to change my approach.
Thank you for your detailed and thought provoking post.

 

[5Sons Coop]

I can surely up the protein in table scrape! Can I give them too much protein? I am ordering 9 more chickens 3 of each My coop has the room and I am hoping the extra chickens will add enough body heat to keep them all cozy next winter. If I feel I need a heat source I will not use light. My hens are my babies not slaves. When I can get chicks so cheap I have no plans of hatching until I am an "empty nester". But thanks for the Vit K info it will be an issue for me in a few years. I can not thank you enough for your time. What a great answer (I need to reread several times). My chickens are almost 1yr old and were laying last fall. With the warm weather and rain the egg size went up....thinking earth worm protein did it. I laughed at natural flavor too. Must be a sales gimmic.

 

[5Sons Coop]

Since I upped the protein by just giving them more in table scrap my eggs got huge. I do not have a scale but a reused large egg container is a struggle to close if you can. They are woofing down the oyster shell too. I am sure that is due to the demand of the larger egg. I assume the lack of nartural grit (very wet spring) and maybe the need for more grit to process the meat scrap contributes. Thanks again for the great advice.