Squishy sour crop....ACV...yes or no?

[Michael Apple]

Thanks for all the help and input! Here are my latest updates:

* Yesterday I got Dottie (the araucana) to expel some of the nasty sour fluids by holding her tightly like a football, and bending myself over so she was turned upside down. I gently massaged and squeezed her crop and soon after, a good stream of sour fluids came out. There were small flecks of food in it as well. I repeated this procedure on four separate occasions, giving her time to rest in between, and drink some of the ACV water.

* I also created a larger pen for her in our garage, instead of the dog crate she was in. I also brought up her sister Ari, the only other araucana, who also appears to have a crop issue, but hers was slightly smaller than when Dottie's was at her worst the other day. This way she has a friend as well.

* This morning I "puked" both birds for about 10 seconds each. Both crops are reduced in size, but are still larger than I believe they should be, especially compared to the other birds in our flock (3 barred rocks and 3 buff orpingtons).


Today I have both acidified copper sulfate and Medistatin at my disposal, finally. Which would be preferable to use at this point? I'm thinking maybe the copper sulfate, as it seems like I'm reading that Medistatin is for mixing in feed, and they are both on liquid-only until...tomorrow maybe? Thinking of following this: "Use 1 gm (0.035 oz) of Copper Sulfate (bluestone) to 2 litres (3.52 pints) of water – be very careful about the measurements of the Copper Sulfate too much will kill your bird
Add 2 teaspoons of Apple Cider Vinegar
Mix in some Cranberry Juice"

I sure am glad you got that gunk out of their crops. There may still be some blockage in there. You'd know by gently feeling the crop.They are going to get dehydrated , so like Casport says, you can use the Pedialyte for hydration and electrolytes. When an impacted crop is caught early, those stool softener caps (Colace 50 mg caps at 1 cap morning and evening) do a good job in about 12 hours. If the crop is real sour you may want to hold off on Colace since it will just create more problems in the intestines. I've never used Medistatin and hopefully you got the dosage from Casport. That is some good info from Avianweb.

If you ever use copper sulfate, use a quarter teaspoon per gallon of water.

 

[brennamae]

I can't tell if there's still blockage or what, but their crops are certainly still squishy and larger than the other birds. Maybe like, golfball size? But when I've tried to clear it today, not as much comes out and I don't want to push it too far either.

I did four hours today of molasses/water mix, as I read that is good to cleanse the bad stuff out. Now I've switched them to water with 1T ACV, and just under a gram (1/4 teaspoon) of copper sulfite. Plus some juice to make it not taste nasty for them so they'll drink it.

My questions are:

1) Do I feed them anything yet? Mashed up garlic cloves in a tiny amount of yoghurt? One bird has been food-free for 48 hours now, and the other for 24 hours. They are not happy with me ! But I don't want to go to early and have to start all over again either...

2) Do I try to expel anything else again today? Or will they naturally expel it and get better with the copper sulfate and acv...etc.?

 

[Michael Apple]

I can't tell if there's still blockage or what, but their crops are certainly still squishy and larger than the other birds. Maybe like, golfball size? But when I've tried to clear it today, not as much comes out and I don't want to push it too far either.

I did four hours today of molasses/water mix, as I read that is good to cleanse the bad stuff out. Now I've switched them to water with 1T ACV, and just under a gram (1/4 teaspoon) of copper sulfite. Plus some juice to make it not taste nasty for them so they'll drink it.

My questions are:

1) Do I feed them anything yet? Mashed up garlic cloves in a tiny amount of yoghurt? One bird has been food-free for 48 hours now, and the other for 24 hours. They are not happy with me ! But I don't want to go to early and have to start all over again either...

2) Do I try to expel anything else again today? Or will they naturally expel it and get better with the copper sulfate and acv...etc.?

1) I was thinking about a time I used digestive enzymes but remembered you said you had some Medistatin? Follow the directions and mix it with some feed and offer each bird 1 tablespoon of feed and see if the crop stays the same or reduces in size. Some Pedialyte wouldn't hurt either. Are they still eliminating waste? What does it look like?

2) I wouldn't expel anything unless the crop fills up with fluid again and doesn't naturally reduce in size. Give them a day to see what happens after you give them the Medistatin treated feed. I'd stop the copper sulfate/ACV in the water and just use a vitamin-electrolyte powder in the water. If you don't have that, regular water at room temperature and 3cc dose of Pedialyte once a day for now.

Btw...sorry it took so long to reply but this was one of those split shift days.

 

[brennamae]

Thanks Michael. I'll see if I can pick up some pedialyte this morning at the pharmacy.

I didn't think I should give them any actual feed, but it seems like you're saying I should try? I just didn't want to add to the blockage too much if it's still going on.

This morning I put out 3T of plain yoghurt with two large garlic cloves mushed in, and they don't seem to like it.

 

[Michael Apple]

Thanks Michael. I'll see if I can pick up some pedialyte this morning at the pharmacy.

I didn't think I should give them any actual feed, but it seems like you're saying I should try? I just didn't want to add to the blockage too much if it's still going on.

This morning I put out 3T of plain yoghurt with two large garlic cloves mushed in, and they don't seem to like it.

Yeah, I wouldn't like garlic and yogurt either. Yes on the feed. Just avoid scratch or any whole seed feed. If the birds' crops are still nasty, they'll likely not want to eat. There should be directions for crop dosing with Medistatin. The main thing is nutrients and hydration will keep them alive. It is usually a secondary infection that claims lives. Sometimes it can be overcome, and sometimes it cannot.

 

[casportpony]

Yeah, I wouldn't like garlic and yogurt either. Yes on the feed. Just avoid scratch or any whole seed feed. If the birds' crops are still nasty, they'll likely not want to eat. There should be directions for crop dosing with Medistatin. The main thing is nutrients and hydration will keep them alive. It is usually a secondary infection that claims lives. Sometimes it can be overcome, and sometimes it cannot.

 

[Michael Apple]

Thanks. I'm sure brennamae appreciates it too. Don't you think it would be wise to do this after 48 hours of not eating?

 

[casportpony]

Thanks. I'm sure brennamae appreciates it too. Don't you think it would be wise to do this after 48 hours of not eating?

I don't know, I haven't used it yet and I've only ever had one with a crop issue, and that was due to an impaction further down.

I do have a hen that has vent gleet that I'm going to use it on. With her I'm going to tube feed it to mixed with baby bird food, so in my case, it will be done on an empty crop, but that's just to avoid the risk of vomiting and aspiration.

 

[casportpony]

Okay, just thinking out loud here... If she were my hen, I would consider withholding food and I would probably tube fluids, probably fluids mixed with medistatin. I'd probably also try giving a couple of cc's of mineral oil, but not if I was going to vomit her. Aspiration of any mineral oil would most likely result in eventual death.

 

[brennamae]

So for the past 3-4 days we have had them on ACV water, with a couple mornings of doing about 4 hours each time of molasses water to try and help flush stuff out. They have been getting a little food in the morning and evening. First just yoghurt and garlic, and then now they are getting scrambled egg w/ yoghurt & garlic.

The past few days there seems to be slight improvement. The other evening we came home around 5 p.m. and both crops seemed to have diminished in size maybe about 30%, and felt less squishy and full of liquid, and slightly more solid feeling. But then it went back to enlarging a bit by morning. The opposite of what we're looking for, obviously. This has been the case the past few days.

I've also been massaging their crops a few times each day, and noticed today that I can hear a gurgling/burping noise down in there when doing so. I haven't tried emptying their crops again because I'm still frightened by the possibility of them aspirating and choking or developing pneumonia.


Thoughts? Keep toughing it out with what we're doing? Should we add any grit to their food or would that just stay in the crop and not get down to the gizzard to do its job?