Styrofoam Incubators Club

[Victoria-nola]

Hello all,

Doing my first hatch. Using a still air LG. On day 7 and decided to candle, per the app that's keeping me updated on the developing chicks' progress.

Anyway, candled the eggs and had a number with obvious life in them - the chicks were moving around. Others, I saw veins all over. Still others, the eggs were so dark I couldn't tell if I was seeing nothing because of the egg or because there's nothing to see. Note: First timers may do better with white eggs. Hahaha...

All that said, I didn't notice much of an air pocket on any of them. Had my wife video the first egg we did. You can see (possibly) the embryo move around, but I don't see an air pocket. Maybe it's there and I just don't know how to see it. Maybe it's not supposed to be there yet.

If it should be there, should I let the humidity drop until day 18 - take it down to 35 or so in an effort to grow that air pocket? Been sitting on 48-50% humidity, temp between 99 and 102 (according to two thermometers in the incubator). Video is attached and help is appreciated.

Thanks...

I was confused at first because you said it was day 7 and you saw chick movement. It's unlikely that's what you saw. You were probably seeing residual movement of the yolk from moving the egg around. You should be seeing veins at this point.Here is a day-by-day photo essay of an incubation/candling:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...g-candling-pics-progression-though-incubation

Darker eggs are harder to see into. You should be seeing the air cell on the large end of the eggs, you place the candler against the large end. Sometimes you have to move the candler around to see the cell because you need to see the contrast at the edge of the cell.

I would want to be very careful and very sure that there are no air cells before lowering the humidity significantly-- I just did 2 hatches, my first, used the "dry incubation/low humidity" method and had a LOT of problems as a result. Were these shipped eggs?

Also, temp variation between 99 and 102 would be considered by some people to be not precise enough to depend on. I have found that getting thermometers to trust is very hard.

Hope this helps. Other more experienced folks should be along to help. It's a holiday weekend so it may be harder to get quick responses.

 

[BantyChooks]

One correction.... Embryos can move by day 7.

 

[Victoria-nola]

One correction.... Embryos can move by day 7.

I stand corrected! Thank you.

 

[BantyChooks]

I've had good success w/ low humidity incubation, but dry for me is 25% and I usually hatch EE eggs which need lower humidity. So I agree, do be careful, but I still think 50% is a bit much for styros......

I agree with the rest though!

 

[BantyChooks]

I stand corrected!  Thank you.

You're welcome..... The first time I thought I saw movement in a day 7 egg, I told myself I was crazy! Then I did some digging and found out they can move day 7..... I was quite shocked. Its amazing how fast they grow.

 

[elizabethu42]

Hi I keep hearing peeps from my incubator I think but I'm no sure if it's my imagination or not?

 

[Victoria-nola]

I've had good success w/ low humidity incubation, but dry for me is 25% and I usually hatch EE eggs which need lower humidity. So I agree, do be careful, but I still think 50% is a bit much for styros......

I agree with the rest though!

Thank you. I've got a HovaBator styro model. I just did a guinea fowl hatch where I had 26 live hatches (out of 36 shipped eggs) but I had to assist 18 of those or they would have died, shrink-wrapped. I am utterly horrified by shrink-wrapping, and the way it went down I am 100% positive that it was low-humidity PRIOR to pipping (i.e., during the whole incubation) that caused the problems (vs. humidity problems during lockdown, during which I was vigilant and didn't go below 60% even between openings). I recently posted on the Guinea section of BYC a detailed accounting: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1117961/dry-incubation-guinea-eggs-a-cautionary-tale

My first incubation was with my own eggs from my Ameracauna/EE chickens. I also would not do low-humidity with them again. I didn't realize so many eggs were shrink-wrapping so I didn't intervene, didn't understand I needed to. I will never forget the unnecessary deaths I saw, deaths I feel responsible for.

So, there may be a happy medium, but based on my experience, and in my opinion, low-humidity is not something to be taken lightly or accepted as "the rule". And I think 20% is absurd, but that number is given as a standard in the BYC info file in the Learning Center. There is another piece of advice in that file which tells people to raise the floor of your incubator once you remove the turner in order to maintain the same temp inside the eggs. I did that my first hatch, but it created a disaster-- in the HovaBator the sides bowl out from the bottom, which meant that the screen-floor, once raised, no longer fitted against the edge. It left a 3/8" gap around the whole floor, and the hatchlings would lurch about and wind up caught in the gap, often head first. And I didn't move the floor my second hatching and there was no change in the internal egg temps either (one of my thermometers is inside a 2-oz water-filled bottle to emulate the interior of an egg). Frankly it bothers me that unreliable information is presented as "official Learning Center information".

I thought it was humidity problems during lockdown that caused the shrink-wrapped eggs in that first hatching because of the floor disaster and subsequent need to remove each chick as soon as possible, so lots of openings of the top. But given my second-hatching experience, I now know the eggs were already destined for problems because of low humidity throughout the incubation, also my fault but a different problem.

I'm saying all this here because, after all, it's the styrofoam incubators that have these bowl-shaped walls and if diligent newbies take certain advice as truth they will be very sorry.

 

[danielkbrantley]

I was confused at first because you said it was day 7 and you saw chick movement. It's unlikely that's what you saw. You were probably seeing residual movement of the yolk from moving the egg around. You should be seeing veins at this point.Here is a day-by-day photo essay of an incubation/candling:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...g-candling-pics-progression-though-incubation

Darker eggs are harder to see into. You should be seeing the air cell on the large end of the eggs, you place the candler against the large end. Sometimes you have to move the candler around to see the cell because you need to see the contrast at the edge of the cell.

I would want to be very careful and very sure that there are no air cells before lowering the humidity significantly-- I just did 2 hatches, my first, used the "dry incubation/low humidity" method and had a LOT of problems as a result. Were these shipped eggs?

Also, temp variation between 99 and 102 would be considered by some people to be not precise enough to depend on. I have found that getting thermometers to trust is very hard.

Hope this helps. Other more experienced folks should be along to help. It's a holiday weekend so it may be harder to get quick responses.

Oops! Thought I'd responded to this already.

First off, thanks so much for your response. I've been letting the humidity lower itself slowly over the last couple days. Right now, it's sitting at 35%. I feel okay with that for the time being. Hopefully that will get the air cell to develop more. I re-candled a couple eggs a couple days ago, shining the light from the top and sides. Seemed there was either no air cell or a very small one. But still saw veins and movement, so hopeful that all is well.

They are not shipped eggs.

And sorry for the confusion on temps. One thermometer (digital) reads 99-100 nonstop, and the other (mercury?) reads 101-102. So that gives me a steady temp of somewhere between 99 and 102. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks again and happy, healthy fourth!

 

[BantyChooks]

Oops! Thought I'd responded to this already.

First off, thanks so much for your response. I've been letting the humidity lower itself slowly over the last couple days. Right now, it's sitting at 35%. I feel okay with that for the time being. Hopefully that will get the air cell to develop more. I re-candled a couple eggs a couple days ago, shining the light from the top and sides. Seemed there was either no air cell or a very small one. But still saw veins and movement, so hopeful that all is well.

They are not shipped eggs.

And sorry for the confusion on temps. One thermometer (digital) reads 99-100 nonstop, and the other (mercury?) reads 101-102. So that gives me a steady temp of somewhere between 99 and 102. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks again and happy, healthy fourth!

I don't know if you were told how to already, but you will want to calibrate before your next batch. If it is 99, that is too low for still air when measured at the correct level. If you have already been told how to calibrate I won't re-post the info...... It made me so much more confident to know my thermometers were accurate.



*Note: some cases have been recorded of them being accurate at 32 but off at 102, so use common sense. If you have several calibrated thermos and one reads higher/lower in ambient temp, it is probably wrong. Don't skimp on the thermometers. I have six!*
-Banti

 

[BantyChooks]

Thank you. I've got a HovaBator styro model. I just did a guinea fowl hatch where I had 26 live hatches (out of 36 shipped eggs) but I had to assist 18 of those or they would have died, shrink-wrapped.  I am utterly horrified by shrink-wrapping, and the way it went down I am 100% positive that it was low-humidity PRIOR to pipping (i.e., during the whole incubation) that caused the problems (vs. humidity problems during lockdown, during which I was vigilant and didn't go below 60% even between openings). I recently posted on the Guinea section of BYC a detailed accounting: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1117961/dry-incubation-guinea-eggs-a-cautionary-tale

My first incubation was with my own eggs from my Ameracauna/EE chickens. I also would not do low-humidity with them again.  I didn't realize so many eggs were shrink-wrapping so I didn't intervene, didn't understand I needed to. I will never forget the unnecessary deaths I saw, deaths I feel responsible for.

So, there may be a happy medium, but based on my experience, and in my opinion, low-humidity is not something to be taken lightly or accepted as "the rule". And I think 20% is absurd, but that number is given as a standard in the BYC info file in the Learning Center. There is another piece of advice in that file which tells people to raise the floor of your incubator once you remove the turner in order to maintain the same temp inside the eggs. I did that my first hatch, but it created a disaster-- in the HovaBator the sides bowl out from the bottom, which meant that the screen-floor, once raised, no longer fitted against the edge.  It left a 3/8" gap around the whole floor, and the hatchlings would lurch about and wind up caught in the gap, often head first. And I didn't move the floor my second hatching and there was no change in the internal egg temps either (one of my thermometers is inside a 2-oz water-filled bottle to emulate the interior of an egg).  Frankly it bothers me that unreliable information is presented as "official Learning Center information".

I thought it was humidity problems during lockdown that caused the shrink-wrapped eggs in that first hatching because of the floor disaster and subsequent need to remove each chick as soon as possible, so lots of openings of the top.  But given my second-hatching experience, I now know the eggs were already destined for problems because of low humidity throughout the incubation, also my fault but a different problem.

I'm saying all this here because, after all, it's the styrofoam incubators that have these bowl-shaped walls and if diligent newbies take certain advice as truth they will be very sorry.

Interesting...... I wouldn't ever run 20%, that is crazy low..... And I have never raised the floor of the incubator either, I just raised the thermometers... I didn't read the learning centre article for "low humidity incubation". Strange, very strange!

I'm glad you found something that works.....