Styrofoam Incubators Club

What kind of Styrofoam Incubator do you have?

  • Hovabator

    Votes: 46 33.8%
  • Little Giant--manual controls

    Votes: 15 11.0%
  • Little Giant--digital controls

    Votes: 42 30.9%
  • Farm innovators

    Votes: 33 24.3%

  • Total voters
    136
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This is incorrect, they do in fact have a very basic thermostat circuit, based around a thermistor... The problem is that the circuit is bare bones and based on the teeter-totter balancing act between the resistance of the dials variable resistor and the thermistor... An action as basic as taking off the lid can ever so slightly turn the dial/variable resistor and then the teeter-totter is whacked... Plus the termistor is inside the electronics housing up top and not actually down by the eggs so it's not in the best place to get the an accurate reading... I don't know if it was this thread or another, but I have suggested removing the circuit board and enlarging the hole for the dial, the shaft on mine was rubbing the foam, thus it's very likely the foam was nudging that dial just a bit here and there...

Now since these foam incubator circuits are made in Asia with a cost driven goal the actual boards will vary by model and production date or what not, but they are all basically the same circuit... If you look closely at the circuit inside you will see the thermistor, it's generally floating on the PC board over a hole to better allow air to flow around it, but being in a housing up top it's still not exactly getting decent air flow, especially in a still air incubator...

700


I think this is why numbers don't mean anything with the Little Giant incubators and there are no number settings anywhere. The goal is to get the temp where you want it at the egg level and not worry about the temp in other parts of the incubator. If you measure above the eggs it will read too hot, if you measure below the eggs it will read too cold. It is the core egg temperature that needs to be at about 99.5 without getting too hot or too cold.

If the room temperature is warmer than usual, the cold air entering the incubator is not as cold and the heater does not cycle on as much, which will keep the upper air pocket relatively cooler even though the overall temperature inside the incubator may be warmer. However if the room temperature is colder than usual the cold air entering the incubator will take longer to warm up, causing the heater to work harder and produce higher temperatures at the top of the incubator in order to mix with the colder air at the bottom of the incubator. As long as the temp in between the high pocket and low pocket is adequate to maintain the egg core temperature at an appropriate temperature, the various measurements only serve to frustrate people and make them think something is wrong with the incubator.

The hen turns eggs over in the nest to warm up the cold side and keep the internal egg temperature somewhat close to her own body temperature. When she gets off the nest, her eggs cool off and she has to warm them again so eggs can survive a range of temperatures as long as they are mostly kept at the proper incubation temperature.

The hen does not have the ability to overheat her eggs while an incubator running on a thermostat that measures air temperature can get heat spikes in the air temperature near the heater in order to mix that hotter air with the cooler air near the sensor. When the eggs are getting cooled off during the removal of the lid, the heater is getting hotter to compensate for the cooler internal temperatures and it is putting out more heat, which will cause higher temperature readings at the top of the incubator closest to the heating element and cooler temperature readings at the bottom of the incubator farthest from the heating element. If you are looking at this higher or lower reading of the air temperature and adjusting the thermostat as a result, you have just changed your overall temperature setting instead of allowing the warmer and cooler air pockets to mix and maintain the original temperature setting.

It is necessary to let the air mix fully inside the incubator and wait until the heater has cycled off for awhile to get a more accurate overall temperature reading. That is why it takes small adjustments over a long time to get the dial set where it needs to be and then it needs to be left alone. There will always be warmer and cooler temperatures in the incubator so temps should be taken in the same location rather than taking them in many different locations and then trying to match up the numbers by playing with the settings.

The hen is not distressed when the far sides of her eggs become cooler to the touch. She warms one side, then she turns the eggs to warm the other side. The embryo grows as long as the core temperature stays in a safe range without getting too hot or too cold. The hen is not capable of keeping all sides of her eggs warmed uniformly at all times but she does keep the core temperature of her eggs steady enough for the embryos to develop properly.
 
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This is a great little temperature and humidity gauge that is easy to source (carried at most Walmarts) and affordable, not 100% accurate but close enough for incubator use... I still like to keep an analog thermometer in at all times as a confirmation but I have found this one to be only a degree off at most, and even if the humidity reading on this is off 5-10% at times it's not a deal breaker it still gives you a reference point... I also like the fact it logs 24 hour highs and lows, giving you a piece of mind of how the last day went...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/AcuRite-Digital-Humidity-and-Temperature-Monitor/16888914
It's ok to keep the whole unit inside the incubator? The humidity doesn't wreck it?

Thanks for info.
 
Hi folks, Wish I had found this thread before I did my first hatch recently, but glad I found it now. I have a HovaBator model #1583, the one with the large window in the top and only 1 red vent hole, with fan and turner.  I now have 10 beautiful chicks (from our own EE hens/purebred Blue Ameracauna rooster eggs) having fun in their brooder that is located out in the chicken coop with a "MamaHeatingPad" cave-- they are doing great.

Here's my problem:
As closely as possible I followed the article on dry incubation advice that is in the Learning Center here on BWC.  Part of that article emphasizes that it's very important, once you take out the egg turner on day 18, to raise the wire floor so that your temperature readings are still accurate because the turner raised the eggs up and you want to be sure to be measuring temps at the same egg level.  So, following the author's advice, I got stainless steel condiment cups to lift up the wire grate and put water in them for humidity, put wet paper towels in and among the channels and cups, and covered the wire with moist paper towels to spare the chicks' feet.

Being my first hatch, I did not realize the significance that the walls of the incubator are curved outward, and when I raised the wire floor, it no longer covered the whole area and a void was created all the way around the wire grate. But when the chicks started to hatch, they would lurch about and then fall into the voids around the edge.  The third chick kept falling headfirst and I went away a few minutes and came back and she'd fallen and was upside down for several minutes.  So for the rest of the hatch I took each chick out after a short time and let them finish drying inside the MHP cave I had awaiting them in a large birdcage next to the incubator.  That worked fine for the chicks themselves, all healthy and no pasty butt.

But, that meant I kept opening the top, creating temp changes and humidity loss.  I had 3 eggs shrinkwrap after pipping, helped 2 open (following instrux from BYC) of which 1 survived and is thriving, the second didn't make it, and I didn't see the third because the pip was on the backside, lower bottom of the egg and I was trying not to disturb things too much so I didn't even know it had pipped until I removed the dud eggs after the hatch was over.  ACK! 

QUESTION:
Is it in fact important to raise the wire bottom after removing the turner?  I have guinea eggs arriving early June and need to get this sorted out. 

Bonus question A: Thank you for the specifics on temp control/readings.  Since guinea eggs are smaller, is it possible to still use the 60mL (2ouce) baby bottle as a thermometer "fake egg" but just put less water in it since the guinea eggs are smaller than chicken eggs?  or...?

Bonus question B: Is there a price point at which I can be confident the "spike" type thermometer that I'll buy for the baby bottle will be accurate?  Or some other criterion that will help me make a choice?  I like having an external digital readout but also will use analog thermometer to double check, but I had 4 differnt thermometers (2 digital, 2 analog) and they were ALL different.

Bonus question C:  Advice on vent holes varies wildly.  Can I get a definitive answer to the question of when to open?  I just have the one single one on my model.  fyi The model came with small air holes drilled into the styrofoam all the way around the base about every 3".

Thank you for your help.


I have not read the article and I have a different incubator but I wanted to point out that hatching temperature is usually at a slightly lower temperature so dropping the height of the eggs would help that happen without adjusting the incubator temperature. Perhaps the increased air needed for hatching (usually by taking out the plug) and the increase in humidity brings the temperature down slightly for hatching but if the manufacturer does not supply a way to raise the floor safely it does not seem like doing so is solving anything while it only creates problems, in my opinion. Some people who hatch in the same incubator they incubated the eggs in will merely unplug the turner during lockdown. If you really find it necessary to raise the height of the eggs, I would leave the wire floor in place and simply add a hatching platform for the eggs to get them to the height you want.
 
To me it's illogical to move the egg hight, if you remove the turner then the eggs and the "temp sensor" would all move down together problem solved, at least with the LG anyways
 
The hen turns eggs over in the nest to warm up the cold side and keep the internal egg temperature somewhat close to her own body temperature.


Yes, she turns them for more even heat, but no that temperature it's not close to her body temp... Her body temp is about 105°-113°F, that temp range is lethal to developing chicken eggs...


The hen does not have the ability to overheat her eggs

Yes, she does have the ability to overheat.. On a hot day when the ambient temperature is not helping her cool the eggs bellow her body temp, she could in fact overheat them by sitting on them... This is why in hotter climates you will see birds, standing over the eggs instead of laying on top of them, leaving the nest more often and staying away longer when she eats/drinks so they do not overheat the eggs...
 
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Yes, she turns them for more even heat, but no that temperature it's not close to her body temp... Her body temp is about 105°-113°F, that temp range is lethal to developing chicken eggs...

Yes, she does have the ability to overheat.. On a hot day when the ambient temperature is not helping her cool the eggs bellow her body temp, she could in fact overheat them by sitting on them... This is why in hotter climates you will see birds, standing over the eggs instead of laying on top of them, leaving the nest more often and staying away longer when she eats/drinks so they do not overheat the eggs...


Yes, I guess I should have said skin temperature instead of body temperature. A newly hatched chick's body temperature is 103.5 which is also higher than the 99.5 temp used for incubation. And the hens do make sure not to overheat the eggs in extreme hot weather but their own bodies do not produce that level of heat just by sitting on the eggs while an incubator will more easily cook the eggs if the temps are too high.
 
I think this is why numbers don't mean anything with the Little Giant incubators and there are no number settings anywhere. The goal is to get the temp where you want it at the egg level and not worry about the temp in other parts of the incubator. If you measure above the eggs it will read too hot, if you measure below the eggs it will read too cold. It is the core egg temperature that needs to be at about 99.5 without getting too hot or too cold.

If the room temperature is warmer than usual, the cold air entering the incubator is not as cold and the heater does not cycle on as much, which will keep the upper air pocket relatively cooler even though the overall temperature inside the incubator may be warmer. However if the room temperature is colder than usual the cold air entering the incubator will take longer to warm up, causing the heater to work harder and produce higher temperatures at the top of the incubator in order to mix with the colder air at the bottom of the incubator. As long as the temp in between the high pocket and low pocket is adequate to maintain the egg core temperature at an appropriate temperature, the various measurements only serve to frustrate people and make them think something is wrong with the incubator.

The hen turns eggs over in the nest to warm up the cold side and keep the internal egg temperature somewhat close to her own body temperature. When she gets off the nest, her eggs cool off and she has to warm them again so eggs can survive a range of temperatures as long as they are mostly kept at the proper incubation temperature.

The hen does not have the ability to overheat her eggs while an incubator running on a thermostat that measures air temperature can get heat spikes in the air temperature near the heater in order to mix that hotter air with the cooler air near the sensor. When the eggs are getting cooled off during the removal of the lid, the heater is getting hotter to compensate for the cooler internal temperatures and it is putting out more heat, which will cause higher temperature readings at the top of the incubator closest to the heating element and cooler temperature readings at the bottom of the incubator farthest from the heating element. If you are looking at this higher or lower reading of the air temperature and adjusting the thermostat as a result, you have just changed your overall temperature setting instead of allowing the warmer and cooler air pockets to mix and maintain the original temperature setting.

It is necessary to let the air mix fully inside the incubator and wait until the heater has cycled off for awhile to get a more accurate overall temperature reading. That is why it takes small adjustments over a long time to get the dial set where it needs to be and then it needs to be left alone. There will always be warmer and cooler temperatures in the incubator so temps should be taken in the same location rather than taking them in many different locations and then trying to match up the numbers by playing with the settings.

The hen is not distressed when the far sides of her eggs become cooler to the touch. She warms one side, then she turns the eggs to warm the other side. The embryo grows as long as the core temperature stays in a safe range without getting too hot or too cold. The hen is not capable of keeping all sides of her eggs warmed uniformly at all times but she does keep the core temperature of her eggs steady enough for the embryos to develop properly.

Knowing my hen is smart is comforting, as she's been sitting on an egg for the last 20 days. Fingers crossed it hatches out and fingers out as well that I do half as well as my hen. Hahaha
 
I have not read the article and I have a different incubator but I wanted to point out that hatching temperature is usually at a slightly lower temperature so dropping the height of the eggs would help that happen without adjusting the incubator temperature. Perhaps the increased air needed for hatching (usually by taking out the plug) and the increase in humidity brings the temperature down slightly for hatching but if the manufacturer does not supply a way to raise the floor safely it does not seem like doing so is solving anything while it only creates problems, in my opinion. Some people who hatch in the same incubator they incubated the eggs in will merely unplug the turner during lockdown. If you really find it necessary to raise the height of the eggs, I would leave the wire floor in place and simply add a hatching platform for the eggs to get them to the height you want.
Thank you. I am in fact not at all interested in raising the wire floor grid again. That was a nightmare. So I'm glad to hear that the advice is surprising to folks here and nonstandard-- I definitely will not do it again. Especially in light of your statements about hatching temps being lower-- I never got that from any reading I did prior to the hatch and panicked when the increased humidity lowered the temp in the incubator. So again, thank you.

I'm normally a very "do my research" type of person, but at a certain point I had to trust that the advice I was getting from that article was valid and true and just move forward. I went way out of my way to comply with the advice and then it turned out to be dangerous for the chicks and the entire hatch. Which is very disappointing. It seems like articles that are posted to the Learning Center should be trustworthy, though I do realize that is difficult to achieve.

I am left with my other questions, if anyone can address them I would be most grateful:

Bonus question A: Thank you for the specifics on temp control/readings. Since guinea eggs are smaller, is it possible to still use the 60mL (2ouce) baby bottle as a thermometer "fake egg" but just put less water in it since the guinea eggs are smaller than chicken eggs? or...? @MeepBeep

Bonus question B: Is there a price point at which I can be confident the "spike" type thermometer that I'll buy for the baby bottle will be accurate? Or some other criterion that will help me make a choice? I like having an external digital readout but also will use analog thermometer to double check, but I had 4 differnt thermometers (2 digital, 2 analog) and they were ALL different. <Maybe not, maybe the existence of calibration ability is really the key?>

Bonus question C: Advice on vent holes varies wildly. Can I get a definitive answer to the question of when to open? I just have the one single one on my model. fyi The model came with small air holes drilled into the styrofoam all the way around the base about every 3".
 

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