Sudden crouching stance and unsteady walking.

[bhawk-23]

If the lameness was due to the pressure of an egg, getting the egg out will resolve it.

I didn't mean to alarm you with the possibility of another virus. Lymphoid leucosis (LL) is even more common in flocks than Marek's. Lameness is usually one of the first signs, and first symptoms show up from age five months to a year. Most often, though, chickens develop resistance when exposed early. Most owners of flocks that carry LL never even know it's there.

Diseases seem to not phase me as much anymore. And knowledge is power. I panicked at the possibility of having euthanized a chicken I could have treated.

I recently did a vitamin treatment in their water. It was a short one and only 1 waterer contained it with access to fresh untreated water to be sure I am not overdosing. I do this every couple of months to help support their nerves and health overall seeing as they have underlying diseases. I’ve been using it for over a year with no issues in the past. Should I stop this practice?

 

[azygous]

I see no harm in doing that vitamin therapy. Do you do fermented feed? My flock carries an avian virus (LL) and fermenting makes more of the vitamins and nutrients in feed available, boosting the health and immune systems of the flock. Over the years, I believe this has helped reduce the number of chickens that become symptomatic.

 

[bhawk-23]

I see no harm in doing that vitamin therapy. Do you do fermented feed? My flock carries an avian virus (LL) and fermenting makes more of the vitamins and nutrients in feed available, boosting the health and immune systems of the flock. Over the years, I believe this has helped reduce the number of chickens that become symptomatic.

No, fermentation is one I have not tried. I worry that the line between fermented and moldy could be quite thin and I question my ability. Is it a difficult process? I have found with the vitamin and probiotic treatments every so often my MG treatments are minimal. The last one I had to do was in November. (Knock on wood, cross your fingers and say a prayer!!!)

 

[azygous]

The fermented feed process is very simple and easy. I've been fermenting for sixteen years and never had any problem with mold.

There are many different kinds of mold, and not all are bad and dangerous. The ones that colonize fermented feed exist in the air all around us. Those are the good ones that cause the fermentation process. To get a head start on the process, I add a splash of ACV in the first bucket. This greatly reduces the amount of time before the first bucket is ready to feed, around 48 hours.

After that, like you would do in making sourdough, I add a spoon-full of the previous batch to a new bucket, and the fermentation is full in just 24 hours. The smell will tell you that it's fermented and not mold spoiled. It smells pleasant and tangy, not acrid and unpleasant like mold would. Stirring it aerates it, further prevent bad mold from taking hold.

Chickens really like it, as it's a much fuller taste, and it's moist, which they like. I keep my fermenting buckets in the kitchen where the warm temp also assists in fermentation. The only negative experience I've had fermenting was the time I tried fermenting Feather Fixer, a feed with a high amount of animal protein. The smell was so awful, I couldn't dump it fast enough.

I make a very dry FF. Most people make it soupy and wet. That turns out getting cemented into the beards of my EEs, and the chickens really don't like it that wet. I just barely cover the feed with warm water, and once it absorbs the water, it's thick as pie dough. By the time it's fully fermented, though, it's released some of the water, and it's just the right consistency, more like cookie dough, but a long way from being soupy and wet.

 

[bhawk-23]

The fermented feed process is very simple and easy. I've been fermenting for sixteen years and never had any problem with mold.

There are many different kinds of mold, and not all are bad and dangerous. The ones that colonize fermented feed exist in the air all around us. Those are the good ones that cause the fermentation process. To get a head start on the process, I add a splash of ACV in the first bucket. This greatly reduces the amount of time before the first bucket is ready to feed, around 48 hours.

After that, like you would do in making sourdough, I add a spoon-full of the previous batch to a new bucket, and the fermentation is full in just 24 hours. The smell will tell you that it's fermented and not mold spoiled. It smells pleasant and tangy, not acrid and unpleasant like mold would. Stirring it aerates it, further prevent bad mold from taking hold.

Chickens really like it, as it's a much fuller taste, and it's moist, which they like. I keep my fermenting buckets in the kitchen where the warm temp also assists in fermentation. The only negative experience I've had fermenting was the time I tried fermenting Feather Fixer, a feed with a high amount of animal protein. The smell was so awful, I couldn't dump it fast enough.

I make a very dry FF. Most people make it soupy and wet. That turns out getting cemented into the beards of my EEs, and the chickens really don't like it that wet. I just barely cover the feed with warm water, and once it absorbs the water, it's thick as pie dough. By the time it's fully fermented, though, it's released some of the water, and it's just the right consistency, more like cookie dough, but a long way from being soupy and wet.

I’ve done lacto fermentation and lots of natural sour dough starters so I can understand that part well enough.
Can I use plastic buckets left out on the counter? Would I only ferment what I use daily? Can it be left outside for 2 or 3 days? Hmmmm….ill have to try and research this more when I get a chance.

Edit to add: can I use my chicken crumbles or does it have to be a special grain mix?

 

[azygous]

How many chickens in your flock? I have fifteen. I use two plastic buckets I bought from the hardware store for a couple bucks each. I ferment enough Flock raiser crumbles at a time that I feed out over about three days, keeping the buckets indoors. The fermented feed begins to lose it's potency after the third day, so I try to only make enough to feed out before then. When I have one day's feed left, I begin a new batch in the second bucket, which reaches full ferment in 24 hours using a scoop from the previous batch.

You can tell when the feed is losing its fermented "kick". It literally goes flat, losing its fluffy texture. Fermented feed in its prime also gives off heat, and will feel warm compared to FF that is losing its ferment. But it will still be safe to feed.

It takes a few years for you to learn what works best for you and your flock. It may not be what works best for me or for others. But you should not feel frightened it will go moldy as long as you keep it at the right temperature. Some people do not take the time to understand the process and they are the ones that store the FF outside in a cold shed, and that prevents optimum fermentation while risking bad mold spoiling the feed.

It's not necessary to put anything into the mix except the regular dry crumbles. In fact, I wouldn't advise it. Your commercial feed is well balanced and it's not necessary to add anything more to it. I do, however, grow oregano for my flock and dry it each fall and add it to my FF.

 

[bhawk-23]

I have 9 hens. I think that is a reasonable amount to try this on.

So, if I understand this properly, I use AVC to start the first batch and then a scoop of that batch to start the next one and so on? Do I need to stir it or just feed, mix and cover like a sour dough starter?

 

[azygous]

Yes, that's correct. You will stir the mixture a couple times a day. This keeps the "scoby" (the white stuff that forms on the surface, which is NOT mold) mixed in evenly. You can cover it, but leave the lid slightly offset so air can circulate and gasses can escape.

 

[bhawk-23]

Started my first batch finally! Hopefully it will be ready Friday!

 

[bhawk-23]

Chickens really like it, as it's a much fuller taste, and it's moist, which they like.

You’re not kidding! The girls loved it!