Sudden onset balance/mobility problem

[rebrascora]

That is heart breaking! I really do sympathise! It does sound very much like Marek's but I would be inclined to get a necropsy done to be sure of what you are dealing with for the future. Or at least enquire about cost implications and how to go about it. State agricultural departments have diagnostics labs that are subsidised for such services. It varies from state to state and some are as cheap as $20. It is significantly cheaper to deal with these labs direct than go through a veterinary practice, where the cost can run into hundreds of $. It seems awful even discussing it when she is still alive but the situation sounds pretty bleak. I know you must have grown incredibly close to her with her being the only one left and having to give her more attention to help prevent loneliness. Is she still eating? If not then I would end it for her and hopefully bring this whole sorry episode to an end, but that decision will not be easy to make and having been there I know how gut wrenching it is.

I initially read that you got them from a hatchery but when I've just reread this whole thread, it sounds like they came from a private breeder (you described it as a private hatchery but not sure what you meant by that) and getting them at a week old means that they may have been exposed to the virus before you got them and before the vaccine had time to become effective.

As regards thinking about getting sex linked hybrids like Golden Comets, do be aware that they come with their own set of ailments, most notably reproductive problems which often prove fatal, due to their excessive egg laying. Just something else to be aware of and take into consideration before making a final decision.

I will be holding you in my thoughts

Barbara

 

[Shepshill]

That is heart breaking! I really do sympathise! It does sound very much like Marek's but I would be inclined to get a necropsy done to be sure of what you are dealing with for the future. Or at least enquire about cost implications and how to go about it. State agricultural departments have diagnostics labs that are subsidised for such services. It varies from state to state and some are as cheap as $20. It is significantly cheaper to deal with these labs direct than go through a veterinary practice, where the cost can run into hundreds of $. It seems awful even discussing it when she is still alive but the situation sounds pretty bleak. I know you must have grown incredibly close to her with her being the only one left and having to give her more attention to help prevent loneliness. Is she still eating? If not then I would end it for her and hopefully bring this whole sorry episode to an end, but that decision will not be easy to make and having been there I know how gut wrenching it is.

I initially read that you got them from a hatchery but when I've just reread this whole thread, it sounds like they came from a private breeder (you described it as a private hatchery but not sure what you meant by that) and getting them at a week old means that they may have been exposed to the virus before you got them and before the vaccine had time to become effective.

As regards thinking about getting sex linked hybrids like Golden Comets, do be aware that they come with their own set of ailments, most notably reproductive problems which often prove fatal, due to their excessive egg laying. Just something else to be aware of and take into consideration before making a final decision.

I will be holding you in my thoughts

Barbara

 

[Shepshill]

I will talk to the vet about sending her to the state lab if it comes to that.

The chicks came from someone that hatches eggs in the basement of his home, so I thought private hatchery was an apt description. I am new to chickens, and I clearly have a lot to learn. The adults that produced the eggs are kept elsewhere at a farm. So unless dander were transported on clothing or footware or something, I don’t think the chicks would have been exposed prior to my purchase. There were some seven- or eight-week-old birds there too, but I am pretty much sure they were there from birth.

I only asked about the vaccine status ( via text) when the first chick showed signs of paralysis suddenly. (I knew nothing of Marek’s disease until I googled her symptoms. I should have known to ask at the time of purchase.) I asked if he had any idea what might be wrong and if the chicks were vaccinated. His answer was kind of cryptic. He said, “No, they were vaccinated.” He then asked about the vaccine status of my four adult birds (purchased as eight-week-old pullets with no thought to vaccines) and suggested I look up Marek’s disease in the Merck Manual. He mentioned that vaccinated birds can still be carriers and that the chicks would have been clean when I bought them since the virus isn’t passed from hen to egg. Since I wasn’t sure what to make of, “No, they were vaccinated,” I then asked directly if they were vaccinated for Marek’s disease. He never replied. He has never inquired about the symptomatic chick or the status of the other two.

While all this was going on, two of my four one-year-old birds were killed by a fox in a matter of maybe 20 minutes on Mother’s Day evening—my beautiful Buff Orpington and my magnificent Barred Rock. They’re penned all day but we were letting them free range for an hour or so each night since last August, weather permitting. I actually caught the fox carting off the Barred Rock, and as some of my sheep and I approached her to see what she was carrying she dropped my dead chicken and hopped the fence. I actually considered grabbing my chicken and sending her to test her for carrier status, but I didn’t follow through— too upset by the loss and too concerned about the other three. Found three piles of golden feathers en route to penning the remaining chickens, and lost all thought of sending the first one for testing. Fox came back for the Barred Rock and took her over the fence. She also came back to the barnyard to look for the others.

I will say that I never observed a single Marek-like symtom in any of the yearlings. They were always healthy, active chickens.

Our first year with chickens was so carefree. This year has been heartbreaking.

 

[rebrascora]

Oh gosh! I really feel your pain! That is terrible! I had to curtail free ranging because foxes were coming through the day, even when I was there and gave chase. Between foxes and dogs and then we had bird flu restrictions, it just seemed too irresponsible to continue to let them roam. I felt terrible penning them as some had never been penned, but at least they are alive to tell the tale. That said, I'm pretty sure one had an attack of Marek's as a result of the stress of being confined. She battled it valiantly for several months before I lost her to it. Marek's really stinks!

I did a quick search and this is what I found for New Jersey State Diagnostics Lab
http://jerseyvetlab.nj.gov/cgi-bin/... PCR & qual. fecal; carcass disposal included

It looks like it costs $90 for up to 3 chickens, but that includes PCR which should ID Marek's and carcass disposal I believe. That said you might need to speak to them and ask since they may have been vaccinated for Marek's, would that give a false reading.... before you commit to spending that sort of money.

 

[Shepshill]

Oh gosh! I really feel your pain! That is terrible! I had to curtail free ranging because foxes were coming through the day, even when I was there and gave chase. Between foxes and dogs and then we had bird flu restrictions, it just seemed too irresponsible to continue to let them roam. I felt terrible penning them as some had never been penned, but at least they are alive to tell the tale. That said, I'm pretty sure one had an attack of Marek's as a result of the stress of being confined. She battled it valiantly for several months before I lost her to it. Marek's really stinks!

I did a quick search and this is what I found for New Jersey State Diagnostics Lab
http://jerseyvetlab.nj.gov/cgi-bin/agriculture/ahdl/search/display.pl?id=71&title=Necropsy: Avian /Poultry Panel (up to 3 birds) includes gross exam, histopathology, aerobic culture, avian influenza/new castle disease PCR & qual. fecal; carcass disposal included

It looks like it costs $90 for up to 3 chickens, but that includes PCR which should ID Marek's and carcass disposal I believe. That said you might need to speak to them and ask since they may have been vaccinated for Marek's, would that give a false reading.... before you commit to spending that sort of money.

 

[Nambroth]

[...]
The chicks came from someone that hatches eggs in the basement of his home, so I thought private hatchery was an apt description. I am new to chickens, and I clearly have a lot to learn. The adults that produced the eggs are kept elsewhere at a farm. So unless dander were transported on clothing or footware or something, I don’t think the chicks would have been exposed prior to my purchase. There were some seven- or eight-week-old birds there too, but I am pretty much sure they were there from birth.

I only asked about the vaccine status ( via text) when the first chick showed signs of paralysis suddenly. (I knew nothing of Marek’s disease until I googled her symptoms. I should have known to ask at the time of purchase.) I asked if he had any idea what might be wrong and if the chicks were vaccinated. His answer was kind of cryptic. He said, “No, they were vaccinated.” He then asked about the vaccine status of my four adult birds (purchased as eight-week-old pullets with no thought to vaccines) and suggested I look up Marek’s disease in the Merck Manual. He mentioned that vaccinated birds can still be carriers and that the chicks would have been clean when I bought them since the virus isn’t passed from hen to egg. Since I wasn’t sure what to make of, “No, they were vaccinated,” I then asked directly if they were vaccinated for Marek’s disease. He never replied. He has never inquired about the symptomatic chick or the status of the other two.
[...]

Bold emphasis mine, in the above quote. But, this is exactly what Marek's disease is great at... traveling via microscopic dander on shoes, clothing, hair, the air... anything. It is an encapsulating virus and travels very, very easily, especially if there is a bird shedding it actively in the area.

Unfortunately, it does not sound too likely that they were vaccinated for Marek's based on your experience. There are other vaccines that people administer to chicks, and some are less expensive/easier to administer, so possibly he gave them a different vaccine? It's too bad he doesn't seem keen on telling you WHAT they were vaccinated against!
Sadly, there are bad or misinformed private breeders, sometimes. There are definitely good ones out there, but very few have the capacity to vaccinate and properly isolate chicks (you need almost clean room conditions, I have been there done that!), which is why even good private breeders usually do not offer vaccination for Marek's disease. This is not a knock against good private breeders whatsoever, they are very important... it's just the reality of this nasty disease.

 

[Shepshill]

Bold emphasis mine, in the above quote. But, this is exactly what Marek's disease is great at... traveling via microscopic dander on shoes, clothing, hair, the air... anything. It is an encapsulating virus and travels very, very easily, especially if there is a bird shedding it actively in the area.

Unfortunately, it does not sound too likely that they were vaccinated for Marek's based on your experience. There are other vaccines that people administer to chicks, and some are less expensive/easier to administer, so possibly he gave them a different vaccine? It's too bad he doesn't seem keen on telling you WHAT they were vaccinated against!
Sadly, there are bad or misinformed private breeders, sometimes. There are definitely good ones out there, but very few have the capacity to vaccinate and properly isolate chicks (you need almost clean room conditions, I have been there done that!), which is why even good private breeders usually do not offer vaccination for Marek's disease. This is not a knock against good private breeders whatsoever, they are very important... it's just the reality of this nasty disease.

I see it is available as a 200 ml vial (1,000) doses that requires mixing. I wonder how long the vaccine is good for once mixed? If a person doesn’t have 1,000 chicks hatched in the 24-36- hour window, can it be stored or must it be discarded?

 

[Nambroth]

I see it is available as a 200 ml vial (1,000) doses that requires mixing. I wonder how long the vaccine is good for once mixed? If a person doesn’t have 1,000 chicks hatched in the 24-36- hour window, can it be stored or must it be discarded?

The vaccines I have looked at, available to the consumer, must be used within an hour of mixing, I believe. Most suppliers have very specific instructions. It cannot be stored normally, it has to be stored/shipped cold (must be stored in liquid nitrogen), must be administered within 36 hours of hatching, and within an hour of mixing. It makes it very expensive and hard to use for the average breeder, especially since mother nature doesn't always hatch the eggs out at the exact same time.
https://www.drugs.com/vet/marek-s-disease-vaccine-hvt.html

 

[Shepshill]

The vaccines I have looked at, available to the consumer, must be used within an hour of mixing, I believe. Most suppliers have very specific instructions. It cannot be stored normally, it has to be stored/shipped cold (must be stored in liquid nitrogen), must be administered within 36 hours of hatching, and within an hour of mixing. It makes it very expensive and hard to use for the average breeder, especially since mother nature doesn't always hatch the eggs out at the exact same time.
https://www.drugs.com/vet/marek-s-disease-vaccine-hvt.html

Interesting! Thank you.

 

[Shepshill]

That must not do much to encourage its use. It is a shame they don’t market the vaccine for small flock use.