Suspecting Marek's - Should I quit growing my flock?

[bekachickenborn]

Hi friends - It's been quite a while since I've posted, but I'm feeling discouraged and a bit sad. I suspect that my flock has a problem with Marek's. It started with my hen, Thomas, going blind. She progressively went blind, with a narrowed pupil. I just thought (I was less informed then) she went blind. She ended up getting lost during a free range last fall. My Easter Egger, May, developed paralysis last fall and was very sick. After trying to nurse her back to health for a few weeks, we had to cull her. One of my older hens, Red, recently/suddenly died...went up to the coop to find her laying there dead. Now, my Wellsummer has no function in her one foot. She is still eating/hops around on one foot. I have her in a cage in my garage. This recent chain of events have led me to believe that Marek's may be the issue (heart breaking as I type!). I'm confused though, as I have not added to the flock for over 2 years. But I guess its possible. Anyways...I was considering bringing new chicks to start building up the flock again this spring (I currently am down to 7 hens and 1 rooster), but now I feel like maybe that is unfair to expose more chickens to my infected flock. I read that Marek's can live for years without a host. Is this the end of chicken raising for me? Any advice is welcome...feeling defeated over the whole thing. Thanks for reading my dramatic story!

 

[Redhead Rae]

Here is a quote that @microchick wrote in another thread to a user that suspected mareks. I think it covers what you are facing in great detail.

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond to this. I've been fighting the flu for over two weeks now. The medicine that I take for inflammatory arthritis makes me super susceptible to infections and unable to take a flu shot so it was quite an experience. I'm just now trying to catch up with things.

I hate to hear that you are still having trouble with bird loss and hate it even more that you still suspect that you are dealing with Marek's. There really isn't an easy answer to your question of 'getting rid of Marek's' because you really can't get rid of Marek's once you have an outbreak. You have to understand that science believes that Marek's is so prevalent that if you test birds from every flock in America you will discover that every flock has been exposed at some time. The trick is that if birds don't die from the disease, it is because they are resistant to it.

I'm going to use my flock of Buff Orpingtons and Welsummers as an example here. I had 22 laying hens and 6 roosters at one point. That number went up to over 40 birds with hens brooding chicks for me. Right now I have 11 5 year old hens and 2 roosters left. These birds at this point are my resistant birds and are doing well. Test any one of them though and they will come up positive for Marek's exposure as will birds from my bantam flock.

Now you have to look at where Marek's comes from. I asked the same questions you are asking in the beginning. Seems logical that if you cull them all and start over you can avoid the virus.

DING DING DING DING! RED ALERT! WRONG!

Marek's disease is airborne and can carry up to 5 miles on the wind. It is also transmittable via wild birds and via contact with the virus being carried in by shoes and clothing.

Been to the feed store? Chances are Farmer Brown has been too and Farmer Brown just tossed two dead chickens on the compost pile that he found dead that morning.......from Marek's. Farmer Brown walking through his property and then into the feed store has just spread the virus from his flock to potentially every flock whose owner has just went to the feed store to buy layer pellets.

Say that you decide to cull all of your birds and get new birds to replace them. How are you going to keep them away from wild birds? It can be done but now you have wild birds that are populating your property and every time they shake out their feathers they are reinfecting your property with whatever diseases that they are carrying on their dander including Marek's.

That pretty little robin sitting on your run fence just flew over from Farmer Brown's farm. Remember farmer Brown just had two birds tossed on the compost pile that succumbed to Marek's disease only Farmer Brown doesn't know that because if you have live stock you are going to eventually have dead stock.

Are you starting to get the picture here? No matter what you do no matter how careful you are you cannot stop this virus from coming onto your property.

Now back to my flock. I have 11 resistant hens and two roosters one of which is showing signs of having some sort of joint inflammation and the other that is showing no signs of the disease. I was told by somebody who knows this disease, a veterinarian scientist at the University of Missouri, that those are the birds that I need to be breeding to continue on my flock and breed resistant birds.

To cull birds that are showing no signs of the disease is basically tossing out the baby with the dirty bath water.

I know it is hard sitting back and watching birds die from this disease. At one point I was either finding a dead bird or culling a dying bird at the rate of one to two a week. I was pretty depressed by the whole situation but came to realize that I just needed to sit back and ride this out.

You cannot rid your property of this disease once it is there. Are you prepared to scrape off the top 6 inches of soil from every inch of your property? Are you prepared to burn every out building that has ever had a wild bird roost in it or are you prepared to throw a net over your entire property to keep wild birds out...no wait, that won't work, if a wild bird flies over your property that is carrying Marek's and it poops in flight and that poop lands on your newly sanitized property you are now reinfected.

I hope you are starting to see the big picture here concerning how difficult it is to remove Marek's from your property. Way much more work than any average chicken owner will want to do.

So this should be the plan.

DO NOTHING. Seriously. You are still going to lose a few more birds but the birds that survive this outbreak if it is indeed Marek's disease are going to be worth their weight in gold. Even if you have some other disease in your flock the birds that survive it are going to be fantastic, strong birds to breed for replacement birds.

What you should be doing is doing your best to keep the remaining birds healthy. Vitamins, probiotics. The best feed you can afford and practice the best biosecurity that you can.

I know what I'm asking is hard. It is agonizing to hold a beloved rooster or hen in your lap that is gasping for breath, pet them, tell them how much you love them and appreciate all the eggs the hen has given you or all the times that the rooster has made you laugh and then put them down and put a bullet in their heads. I've shed buckets of tears and agonized over every loss until I came to realize that if you have chickens you are going to have losses, either from disease or from predation. If you have Marek's well, you are going to have more losses than you counted on but you can overcome this infestation and have chickens left to enjoy.

I too thought about doing a 100% cull but thanks to that Doctor at Mizzou that told me not to do that I didn't. He told me I have a few birds left but those birds were vital to the survival of my flock and he was oh so right.

I commend you for sending off a dead bird to be tested and your attitude of 'I'm going to lick this' is just the attitude that you need but please don't cull your healthy birds just to bring in more birds that will probably even if vaccinated suffer a loss or more because you cannot realistically remove Marek's from your property.

I'm sorry for the long post but no post concerning surviving Marek's can be done in a few sentences.

Hang on. It does get better. Not great, but better.

 

[bekachickenborn]

Thank you so very much. I was feeling like a bad chicken owner. I take a lot of pride in keeping my coop clean/comfortable, so this was a real blow to my confidence. I will take this advice to heart. I always have a broody silkie or two, so when the time is right, I'll have them hatch some chicks with good genes.

 

[Redhead Rae]

Thank you so very much. I was feeling like a bad chicken owner. I take a lot of pride in keeping my coop clean/comfortable, so this was a real blow to my confidence. I will take this advice to heart. I always have a broody silkie or two, so when the time is right, I'll have them hatch some chicks with good genes.

You're welcome. I saw that post from @microchick and kinda bookmarked it for when someone asks about what to do if they suspect mareks. Mareks really isn't a "clean/dirty" thing, but an odds thing. One thing you do NOT want to do if you suspect or confirm Mareks on your property is to sell off birds or allow other people with chickens to interact with your birds. What you can do, is sell hatching eggs (although I'm not sure what protocol you could follow to clean the exterior of the egg) since Mareks is horizontally (enviromentally) transmitted, not vertically (through the egg) transmitted. That means if you want to get rid of roosters, the best thing you can do is eat them or keep a rooster flock. Mareks isn't harmful to people.

 

[microchick]

Thanks @Redhead Rae for posting that quote. @bekachickenborn i am so sorry to hear that you are going through this. And no you are not a bad chicken mamma. I still do not know where my infection came from but it is very curious that to my knowledge my flock is the only one that has suffered catastrophic losses in our area.

I bought chicks from an NPIP that bred for resistance. True they were resistant to whatever form of the disease that was prevalent in their area wasn't the same as the strain that is prevalent on our farm. Oh, there is Marek's around but the birds I hatched from eggs I bought from an Amish neighbor are now thriving 2 year olds that have helped my bantam and bantam cross flock grow from 11 birds to almost 50 with only two losses that I can attribute to Marek's disease.

I'm currently watching my last buff O/welsummer cross roosters decline from some sort of inflammatory joint involvement, and last week one of my surviving buff O hens decided to go broody. I was able to break her but now she is having problems walking. These birds are 4 years and I'm pretty sad watching these two lovely animals face their end.

But I'm still determined to move forward with my Fayoumi cross breeding plan and see what happens.

My best advice is to talk to your neighbors that have chickens and see if any others are suffering losses in their flocks. If they aren't, if their have multi generational flocks, think about getting a few fertile eggs from them and hatching them in an incubator and seeing what happens.

If you have questions or just would like to talk, please feel free to pm me. I'm always willing to help out a fellow chicken person who is dealing with the heartbreak that is Marek's Disease.

 

[Redhead Rae]

One more thing you should do, is if you do have a chicken die, send it for a necropsy to get mareks confirmed. Either way it turns out it will be a relief to know.

 

[microchick]

Definitely. You might want to check with either your local Farm Bureau or Home Extension office to see where they send animals for Necropsy. Sometimes the price can get a little cashy in some areas.

If my husband (he's a retired eye doc) hadn't been able to lock down a diagnosis for me by looking at one of my affected hen's eyes I would have spent about 180$ on a diagnosis going through the University of Missouri Veterinary College lab.

 

[bekachickenborn]

One more question...I have current sick hen in my garage. Should I cull her, or is there a chance she will be able to walk again? With my last sick one, I let her go for about 2 weeks before culling (she was to the point where she couldn't hop around/eat/drink. I hate taking that measure, but don't want to make her suffer out of my own selfishness.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Hi friends - It's been quite a while since I've posted, but I'm feeling discouraged and a bit sad. I suspect that my flock has a problem with Marek's. It started with my hen, Thomas, going blind. She progressively went blind, with a narrowed pupil. I just thought (I was less informed then) she went blind. She ended up getting lost during a free range last fall. My Easter Egger, May, developed paralysis last fall and was very sick. After trying to nurse her back to health for a few weeks, we had to cull her. One of my older hens, Red, recently/suddenly died...went up to the coop to find her laying there dead. Now, my Wellsummer has no function in her one foot. She is still eating/hops around on one foot. I have her in a cage in my garage. This recent chain of events have led me to believe that Marek's may be the issue (heart breaking as I type!). I'm confused though, as I have not added to the flock for over 2 years. But I guess its possible. Anyways...I was considering bringing new chicks to start building up the flock again this spring (I currently am down to 7 hens and 1 rooster), but now I feel like maybe that is unfair to expose more chickens to my infected flock. I read that Marek's can live for years without a host. Is this the end of chicken raising for me? Any advice is welcome...feeling defeated over the whole thing. Thanks for reading my dramatic story!

One more question...I have current sick hen in my garage. Should I cull her, or is there a chance she will be able to walk again? With my last sick one, I let her go for about 2 weeks before culling (she was to the point where she couldn't hop around/eat/drink. I hate taking that measure, but don't want to make her suffer out of my own selfishness.

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this.
There's no way to know if you should cull the sick hen or not.
What symptoms does she have?
If you suspect she is suffering from Marek's or that you are dealing with Marek's in your flock, then culling her and sending the body to your state lab will give you confirmation.
This gives you more information so you can move forward on how you want to add/raise more chickens.
Depending on your state, testing/necropsy is reasonable. You can find your lab here:
http://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm

 

[microchick]

It's hard to say, @bekachickenborn.

I agree 100% with @Wyorp Rock. I have a 4 year old buff O hen right now who is having mobility problems. I know she isn't going to get any better as she is skin and bones. I will probably cull her soon. Only you will know once you have a chance to watch the hen and determine whether or not she is improving or losing ground. Once mine start to dramatically lose ground I usually just cull them. I figure it's the last gift of love I can give them as anything I do will not lengthen their lives, but will lengthen their deaths.

You have to remember. When a 'Marek's bird' is stressed, sick or injured, they are shedding off a higher amount of infected dander than they are when they are well and holding their own as their immune system is further stressed by whatever is happening to them or around them.

Good that you have separated her. But if you decide to cull her, do send her remains somewhere for a necropsy. Many times Marek's birds will die of some illness that can spread to the rest of your flock. I've heard of them having fungal infections that kill them.