The Buckeye Thread

[Metella]

Oh - yes on the dog - and I have one - pup in training !

I also have a family of ravens that warn me when fox are sneaking up .... still - I put so much of what I have into this (not a rich girl) - I would hate for something to happen when I am gone that a big fearless roo could have mitigated.

And more and more people are starting up small working farms to help them survive - I think they would welcome a more world-aggressive roo that also learns his family .... Just on my wish list

Still - that has to be a fine line to tow when keeping them from not attacking their owners. So it may never pan out. Just wondering.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Lovely !!!

I've heard a lot of talk about physical breeding goals ....

What about Roo behavior ? For me - I live on a little hobby farm, my girls free range when they are old enough and I need a roo that will fight for them - warn them and such but not have aggressive tendancies toward its caregiver (me) I don't even care if it is aggressive toward other people.

Experience will eventually show that a rooster is simply not a match for 90% of the predators out there. If he "defends" his flock it is mostly by volunteering to be the first to die. Warn? Yes. Defend? Keep them safe? Not so much.

 

[007medic]

Now Roos I definitely have something to say about Matella,

First off it's just a daggum shame that you're on the other flippin' side of the country and I cant give you this beautiful OE cock I have right now. He truly is all that you're dreaming of in a Roo. He's super friendly to all humans, sounds the alarm for hawks, has flogged dogs, cats, geese and I believe a donkey that he thought was getting too sniffy around the girls. Of course, being an OE, he'll absolutely beat the stew out of any competing Roo (or kill him if he won't stand down or run). In all he's the yard-bird Roo of your dreams. As an aside, this OE Roo crossed over Buckeye Hens produced some of the best dern meat birds I've ever had- grew out in 14 weeks, huge breasts, Buckeye thighs, roasted tender and fine-grained meat

.

Roo behavior, namely aggression, is a characteristic that we, like Pathfinders, actively select against. That being said, it's important that folks understand some Roo behaviors. For instance, if I am 'harassing' a hen, like picking her up and moving her out of a nest box to pick up eggs, and a Roo comes over and jumps at me, I do not punish this behavior nor do I consider this aggression. This is a Roo protecting his hen and the attack only lasts as long as she hollers, which is to say about 2-3 seconds. Often times there's just the rush over and the jump but no contact. I consider this desireable behavior in my Roos as it shows me a facet of what I believe to be a vigor component (who needs a lazy Roo?). And it shows me that they're alert to their hens -that they'll be good stewards of their hens as they range during the day. As long as they remain docile or respectable to me and other humans at all other times I do not consider them aggressive and they have no fear of being sent to freezer camp.

When we first started out with Buckeyes years ago, the very first Roo we had was aggressive. He was also scrawny, and not the best representative of the breed but we had a superior hen with phenomenal type but I digress...Anywho, this Roo took into his head that he was going to attack at any given opportunity. If you took your eyes offa' him more than 5 seconds you had chicken-leg-rex trying to take a plug outta' you or flogging you. I'm ashamed to say I kicked that bird across the yard... a coupla' times. We re-homed him as a yard bird to a free range flock, but in all honesty, he probably should have been culled and not given the opportunity to pass on his genes. His offspring were a different story, the first generation (and the only one that fella was used for) were all pullets. Seriously, I'm not lying here, he had one breeding season and every last one turned out to be a pullet. Generation 2 brought in an outcross of superior quality, type, color and temper. In that generation we had 2 out of 2 dozen that were insanely aggressive and at a young age. Guess which one had the superior type and size (size was a real issue back then)- yep the meanest one. I didn't breed him, but the close second was docile, so I went with him. Second generation was a big hatch and an out of 'em all 1 or 2 were mildly aggressive and tasted good out of the oven. Generation 3 saw no aggressive cockerels and we've had no full-on aggressive or man-fighting birds since.

Every once in a blue moon, a male with aggressive tendencies will show up in a hatch. Behavior usually sets on between week 16 and 24. It starts as a bold cockerel that then acts extremely flighty and culminating in sneak attacks from behind. And not just peck peck peck, like full on jumping and trying to hit the back of your legs. It's usually around feeding time too. I watch the bold and flighty to see if they progress to man-fighters. Not all do. Some just turn out to be superior cocks; but the aggressive ones, they seem to taste extra good...At our place, if a bird is aggressive and is in all other ways a superior specimen, they still get culled. Our experience is this a heritable trait. It took us 3 breeding seasons to be reasonably rid of the trait. Why would we in one bad breeding decision, ruin years of good breeding decisions? Why in the world would we propagate something as odious that?

 

[Metella]

Still, in a free range situation - defending even to death will give the hens time to scatter - thereby saving them or a high portion of them.....

That is what happened with my first flock and a cuckoo maran roo I had - there were 8 spots widely scattered of his feathers .... and 4 hens out of 20 lost ..... I was away. I couldn't find them until evening - so I thought all was lost - but they had scattered into the bushes and trees and such.

Since him, I have not come across a roo that tends to confront rather than - or in addition to - warning.


So I understand what you are saying and why - and also that for 90% of chicken owners that is sufficient (so I have no issue with not breeding for this trait) - however, I will be on the lookout for the type I lost and once I find him, I hope to bred him. The Cuckoo was gone before I had even decided to have a self-sustaining flock - so I have no offspring of his.

I wonder if I hatch out eggs ..... I know a % will be roos .... I wonder when these traits will start to manifest, so I don't cull a possible great candidate for daddy.

Anyone here have a pattern of age when / if any warning and aggressive traits show up?

I have a little experience, but certainly only a few years worth and that is why I am wondering out loud here.

 

[Pathfinders]

I loved Cuckoo Marans when I bred them (sadly, my best cock bird was stolen and never returned.) I had some from Kelly Cratty that were just wonderful (clean legged.)

 

[buffalogal]

So buffalogal are you saying that the Polish Male Chicken is untrustworthy? Not familiar with that breed. Please explain.

LOL I'm saying I've never met one I would trust. They have all proven to be manfighters (or visiting neighbor fighters, or your great Aunt who uses


a walker fighter, or child fighters). It's a shame, because the hens were always docile and the breed really is fun to see walking around the yard.

OTOH, I've yet to own or even see an aggressive Buckeye, they're just a calmer, easier to manage breed around everyone.

 

[Metella]

I found him to be the easiest roo I've ever had - very gentle with me and that is why I was astonished at the evidence of the fight he put up !

I had another that used to posture with me - but was a total chicken when free ranging (ha ha ha) and so - I think only testing out their metal will really show their makeup.

I really liked that cuckoo ... I think he was clean legged also - a free gift from a city person who couldn't have roos and one of the pullets transformed. Wish I knew then what I know now ....

 

[buffalogal]

Feathers in various piles doesn't always mean the bird put up a big fight; the predator could be young and inexperienced about catching prey (like grabbing the tail rather than the actual bird, and it realizes it's mistake as the bird runs off leaving it with a mouthful of feathers) or it could be nervous about eating it on site, or had trouble carrying it.

I've found that a good rooster will rush out to deflect a 'predator' like the family dog, or a housecat or a rowdy child chasing hens, but when he's confronting something unknown like a Coyote or Fox or Hawk, a smart rooster will sound the alarm and make his escape with the ladies. He who squawks and runs away, lives to breed another day.

 

[Metella]

Total downer on the Legend of the Cuckoo !

However I will stick to my rose-colored version. La la la la la

 

[007medic]

Well poop.... Knitty posted those pix of the beautiful chicks and now all I can think of is how to hatch some of my own out before the end of August - our first frost is usually between October 15th to the 31st. Anyone out there with experience in late hatches?