The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[speckledhen]

QUOTE="1muttsfan, post: 19068127, member: 83951"]I once bought a bag of sunflower seed for wild bird feed at a local store and it was totally infested. I took it back and she said, "well the birds will just eat the bugs"

I had to go out and take a sniff of my Dumor, and quite honestly it smelled fine to me.[/QUOTE]

Geez, weevils in feed are not the same as bugs on the ground. Weevils in feed mean the feed is not fresh and the vitamins are depleted. Why pay full price for buggy, substandard feed?

I think that unless someone smells the feed we use, which, like Lisa says, smells almost like a bag of whole grain cereal, they don't know what I'm talking about, it's all they know. I did once take back a bag of Purina because the strong chemical odor was so bad, I thought something was wrong. The store owner smelled it and did not have a clue what I meant. I think that's because it's the only feed she'd ever smelled. I cannot recall the smell of the Dumor, but if Purina makes it and it smells like their feeds, it would have the same chemical odor, I'd think. I just cannot remember, having only had two small bags of it.

 

[Pyxis]

I think that unless someone smells the feed we use, which, like Lisa says, smells almost like a bag of whole grain cereal, they don't know what I'm talking about, it's all they know. I did once take back a bag of Purina because the strong chemical odor was so bad, I thought something was wrong. The store owner smelled it and did not have a clue what I meant. I think that's because it's the only feed she'd ever smelled. I cannot recall the smell of the Dumor, but if Purina makes it and it smells like their feeds, it would have the same chemical odor, I'd think. I just cannot remember, having only had two small bags of it.

I know the nice smell you mean - the Poulin Grain smells that way, and so does Naturewise, a really nice smell. If Poulin wasn't so expensive or if I could get Naturewise without driving an hour, I'd probably use one of those. DuMor doesn't have that nice smell, but I haven't found it smells off or like chemicals.

 

[speckledhen]

I know the nice smell you mean - the Poulin Grain smells that way, and so does Naturewise, a really nice smell. If Poulin wasn't so expensive or if I could get Naturewise without driving an hour, I'd probably use one of those. DuMor doesn't have that nice smell, but I haven't found it smells off or like chemicals.

Yeah, I don't remember the smell of the Dumor since the 2nd bag I got was green with mold, blech, and I never got it again. I wouldn't drive an hour for feed, either, unless that was the closest place, which, in some more rural or isolated areas, it is the closest. You just have to get what's available where you live. If they eat it and it is not moldy and they seem to do well on it, that's what matters.

 

[Pyxis]

Yeah, I don't remember the smell of the Dumor since the 2nd bag I got was green with mold, blech, and I never got it again. I wouldn't drive an hour for feed, either, unless that was the closest place, which, in some more rural or isolated areas, it is the closest. You just have to get what's available where you live. If they eat it and it is not moldy and they seem to do well on it, that's what matters.

I do always pick up Naturewise if I'm out that way for other reasons. The birds love it But, another thing, that place I get it from only carries it seasonally. I went there for a swap the weekend before last and tried to buy some and they didn't even have it in stock. You wouldn't think it would be so difficult to get feed, lol!

You know, I just realized that I actually use a Purina feed too - what they call "meat bird", it's a 22% protein feed that's really nice for ducklings, goslings, and keets, and probably poults too but I like to use a real turkey starter for them which has 26% protein. That one actually has the nice smell, I wonder if they make it differently? It's the only Purina feed I use - I've tried their layer and chick starter before and just was not impressed. It does have a weird smell to it.

Oh, the OP of the fermented feed thread just came back. Guess what? She DID have mold in her FF I'm now waiting to see what all those other posters that came in to have a fight over FF have to say to that. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't come back again.

 

[Leahs Mom]

But.... the "ff crowd 'educators'" think mold is okay.

 

[Pyxis]

But.... the "ff crowd 'educators'" think mold is okay.

In back to back posts one of the FF people arguing in there said that they know the difference between good yogurt and moldy yogurt, yogurt being a fermented food, then came back and said that fermented foods don't mold because of the microbes that populate it during fermentation. So, which one is it?

You can't argue with them.

 

[Leahs Mom]

No. I learned that a long time ago and I just can't read the threads about it. I almost wish that BYC would ban the topic and delete those threads.

 

[Leahs Mom]

PS: I have fermented feed myself and I know how to properly lacto-ferment. I haven't done it in a couple of years now, however. And when I did, they always had regular feed free-choice.

I decided to quit trying to teach folks the correct way as I found that it is just too hard of a concept for some - and also because every time I'd teach how to do it, someone would follow by saying it was just fine to do a yeast ferment, have mold in the feed, etc.

I think if the crowd that kept saying it was okay to make it wrong would have just learned a little about the process and types of fermentation, everyone would have had a better chance at producing a palatable feed. Even then, I would have advocated to offer dry feed so that they had an alternative free choice.

I'd see the photos of the feed that folks would post and say that they were giving their birds and it was just fearsome. All the while, everyone would gather around in the thread and tell them how wonderful their feed looked.

Sigh.

Poor birds.

I'd much rather see them learn to sprout whole grains for their birds.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

It just occurred to me that I don't understand what the end result of FF is. The hype is that it's more nutritious, but than what? Better production? Longer life? Cheaper to feed? I guess I don't understand why people do it. I have a healthy flock that produces well and many are long lived, all on a dry ration, some scratch, whole corn, scraps, and lots of range.

Can someone explain it to me, why FF? What's the advantage? Thought I still wouldn't do it.

 

[Pyxis]

It just occurred to me that I don't understand what the end result of FF is. The hype is that it's more nutritious, but than what? Better production? Longer life? Cheaper to feed? I guess I don't understand why people do it. I have a healthy flock that produces well and many are long lived, all on a dry ration, some scratch, whole corn, scraps, and lots of range.

Can someone explain it to me, why FF? What's the advantage? Thought I still wouldn't do it.

FF supposedly has more nutrients than dry feed, birds supposedly eat less of it than dry feed, there's supposed to be less waste, and it makes their poop smell less. These are the reasons the FAQ they are always linking to people gives:

1) Superior nutrition

Fermenting creates new vitamins; specifically B vitamins, and new nutrients. Some of those nutrients are amino acids. The soaking and fermenting also breaks down the anti-nutrients and toxins in the grains that prevent the digestion of available nutrients.

2) Less waste

This alone was appealing to me, not including the expansion of the feed, so it goes further than dry feed. The feed isn’t kicked all over the ground and lost to the subterranean trolls that hover and wait for scratched out nuggets of goodness.

I’m seriously still saving AT LEAST 2/3 on my feed bill, even with adding 14 more babies.

3) Less stinky poo

It’s always about the poop, isn’t it? Not only is the poo less stinky, it’s more solid. Cecal poops are always going to be cecal poops, so we can’t get rid of those. BUT. The other ones- even more solid, and drier. This makes cleaning *a lot* easier because less the cecals, you aren’t dealing with a ton of smearage.

I haven’t noticed the no smell like some report, but I do agree that they definitely don’t smell as much. And guinea poop, OH MY STARS, smells absolutely DELISH compared to regular feed poops. That stuff was toxic, I’m tellin’ ya. Now it’s tolerable and doesn’t require the HAZMAT suit and re-breather. Whew.

4) Glossier feathers

I’m not aware of any studies that measure feather glossy-ness, so you’ll just have to take my word for it. And, they grow back faster.


I don't know what these people are feeding that makes their birds' regular poop apparently wet and smeary, because my birds have poop that's firm and doesn't really smell even on regular feed. Cecal poop aside, of course. My bird's feathers are already nice and glossy, and the higher protein feed that I already feed helps them grow back quickly after a molt.

As for "anti-nutrients and toxins", just what the heck are those? Honestly, name one "toxin". Name one "anti-nutrient". That's a load of BS just like the fad products people buy that are supposed to "cleanse the body of toxins". What do you think your liver does?