The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[pigeonguy]

No. It is an old wives tail
Guess that makes me one of them old wives LOL
I put in g for 100 grams.
Meal worms in percent and corn in grams ?????????????

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy, I'm understanding that we don't know 100% exactly what happened other than something horrible did. If it were to happen again to anyone, do you think there would be anything that could be done to save the chicken? Or should we humanely end the chickens suffering quickly? Again, thank you for sharing. I'm one that needs visual aid to understand things and you do such a good job of explaining.

I had to think and act quickly with this poor bird. I could actually see him swelling by the minute. There was no way of knowing where and how to help him. All I could see and feel was a swelling bird with incredible edema and in intense pain and suffering from unknown cause. Holding and touching him was causing him even greater suffering. Even after death and after the necropsy, this poor bird was still filled with air bubbles in every nook and crevice of it's body. I hope to never see this in a chicken, mammal, or human ever again. The memory of this birds affliction will haunt me the rest of my life.

I would strongly suggest doing the humane thing if anyone ever sees a chicken in their flock get this way. Don't let the bird die in agony. It truly is a horrific phenomenon.

 

[Quailsong]

I think that was a good attitude for you to have as a kid. And I'm glad you've carried that curiosity on through the years. In my case, I wasn't so fortunate. As a kid, I was expected to bury the family's puppies, kittens, birds, etc because nobody there wanted to do the dirty work. They didn't care if I was just 10 years old, bawling my eyes out (for the pets, not that I had to bury them). It was my job. I did my best to hand feed/raise the ones that I could & gave the ones who didn't make it their quiet funerals in the backyard. Never thought to dissect them, considering they were like family to me and I wasn't a vet - so it was not my 'job'. If that makes sense.

Like you, I can handle big events with gusto & people can easily look to me as a leader in those moment...but after the curtains are drawn I need lots of time to adjust & solitude. I just break apart when everyone's getting back on their feet. You'd never know I was that same calm person during the event. But that's fine with me, so long as I've handled the main situation (whatever emergency it is) and helped others if needed - I give myself permission to vent out & cry myself silly after.

I know FF is the thing on these forums & a growing number of people all over are jumping into it. I've nothing against it as I ferment my own foods quite often (big fan of kimchi!) Just wanted to toss a thought back there if maybe bubbling feed could have exasperated the bird's issue. But even IF it did, the pros totally outweigh the cons. By far.

Thank you for pouring through every bit of that chicken that you could. You've gone more than the mile here & the info/pics you have shared are definitely going to be helpful to many here.

Also, your entire reply was so sincere you nearly had me in tears. Right up until your last words...."The Balloon Chicken". I burst out laughing. *hugs*

 

[aaggjg]

Thank you, Aoxa? Anyone have anything to add from their own experiences with sour crop?

I am WAY late to this discussion been swamped at work ... so if someone else has already offered up this advice please ignore. My bantam cochins got sour crop when I switched to FF back on the old thread Bee suggested Olive leaf Extract ... I did try this and I'm not sure it worked... also I tried kyolic (aged garlic extract) BUT the one MIRACLE thing that I found after searching thread after thread was Red Wine .... You MUST withhold food or grain based food as Aoxa says its a yeast infection and sugars feed yeast. Give them a dropper full of Red Wine and wait .... I also massaged the crop in a downward motion blah blah blah.... Come back later and if it is not gone give them more Red wine ... The hen should be cured in 12-24 hours ... I gave mine yogurt too.... Another chicken owner had the same problem and I told her about the wine ... she was skeptical but emailed the next day say it was a miracle! So thats my 2 cents....

 

[groverlvchx]

This one year old black orpington is my rooster's favorite but I haven't seen anyone pecking at her. I don't see mites. I'm treating with NuStock. Early May I treated twice and it calmed the firey red skin well, but now it's inflamed again so I'm using NuStock every other day for longer than two treatments. My flock number is 10: 1 roo to 9 hens. Two hens are broody right now and one has a brood so those three are out of commission for roo.
Is NuStock every other day too much? Should I continue until I see feather regrowth? Should I get a chicken saddle? Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thank you in advance

 

[groverlvchx]

Please don't tell Flora that I posted that pic of her tukus on the internet. She would be horrified.

See the chickies in the background of the above pic? That broody was sitting on duds so at day 25 I obtained seven 1-week-old chicks and slipped them under her at night (after removing the smelly nest). One week later they are doing great! YEA FOR ADOPTION!
I hope my other two broodies aren't sitting on duds. The rooster is doing his roosterly duties. He'll be a year old in August. Could he be shooting blanks? Here's a pic taken about a month ago--he's beautiful. No spurs to speak of yet. He calls the ladies over for treats, is so good to the chicks and protective of his flock.

You can barely see his spurs. His name is Buick (because he's big) so my DH decided his spurs will be called LaSabres. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I have three Black Orpingtons and the rest are mutts. This guy sure looks like he's got some Jersey Giant in his gene pool.

 

[aoxa]

I am WAY late to this discussion been swamped at work ... so if someone else has already offered up this advice please ignore. My bantam cochins got sour crop when I switched to FF back on the old thread Bee suggested Olive leaf Extract ... I did try this and I'm not sure it worked... also I tried kyolic (aged garlic extract) BUT the one MIRACLE thing that I found after searching thread after thread was Red Wine .... You MUST withhold food or grain based food as Aoxa says its a yeast infection and sugars feed yeast. Give them a dropper full of Red Wine and wait .... I also massaged the crop in a downward motion blah blah blah.... Come back later and if it is not gone give them more Red wine ... The hen should be cured in 12-24 hours ... I gave mine yogurt too.... Another chicken owner had the same problem and I told her about the wine ... she was skeptical but emailed the next day say it was a miracle! So thats my 2 cents....

I remember you mentioning that on the road thread. I will make note of it if I ever need to try it.

 

[Mumsy]

I think that was a good attitude for you to have as a kid. And I'm glad you've carried that curiosity on through the years. In my case, I wasn't so fortunate. As a kid, I was expected to bury the family's puppies, kittens, birds, etc because nobody there wanted to do the dirty work. They didn't care if I was just 10 years old, bawling my eyes out (for the pets, not that I had to bury them). It was my job. I did my best to hand feed/raise the ones that I could & gave the ones who didn't make it their quiet funerals in the backyard. Never thought to dissect them, considering they were like family to me and I wasn't a vet - so it was not my 'job'. If that makes sense.

Yes. I know exactly where you're coming from. My job from the age of ten was bottle feeding calves before and after school. I named them at birth and loved on them and then saw them slaughtered. and served onto my plate for dinner. Sometime in my childhood rather than that reality scarring me, it became necessary to learn from it and then grow past it. My mother thought I should become a veterinarian and use my knowledge and skill in the farming community. She came to realize my emotional connection to the animals meant that likely was never going to happen.



Like you, I can handle big events with gusto & people can easily look to me as a leader in those moment...but after the curtains are drawn I need lots of time to adjust & solitude. I just break apart when everyone's getting back on their feet. You'd never know I was that same calm person during the event. But that's fine with me, so long as I've handled the main situation (whatever emergency it is) and helped others if needed - I give myself permission to vent out & cry myself silly after.

I know FF is the thing on these forums & a growing number of people all over are jumping into it. I've nothing against it as I ferment my own foods quite often (big fan of kimchi!) Just wanted to toss a thought back there if maybe bubbling feed could have exasperated the bird's issue. But even IF it did, the pros totally outweigh the cons. By far.

Interestingly, it has never once crossed my mind to suspect my FF. My mash was fresh yesterday morning. I had just stirred in fresh pellets. No bubble action. When I opened and smelled the contents of the crop, there was no odor of ferment. And even if it was...It was not gas bubbles blowing up this chicken. It was air.
I can follow a timeline of exactly when this bird started to blow up. It happened to him so quickly. I turned the HRIR flock out and filled their feed pans. I stood and watched each bird fill up for a few minutes. Went in the house to leave the bucket. Came back out within ten minutes. All birds were back in their coop but this one. He was sitting down next to the feed pan and his scalp was puffing up and he was getting rounder. I picked him up and he immediately began to gasp. In the following hour as I scrambled to get him isolated in a hospital pen in the green house and charge my camera battery he had grown so full I couldn't believe my eyes.
Remember. There was no ingesta in his proventriculis (first stomach). His food never got through his crop. His affliction began as soon as his crop was filled. Even more interestingly. His neck was filled with foamy bubbles and bubble pockets were all through his body cavity. There was less bubble pockets around his intestines. Huge bubbles were forming in his thighs, breast, head, and abdomen between his muscle and skin. Leaking intestines would have been visible, smelled, and necrosis would have started. There was none of that. There was no odor to these bubbles. It was just air.


Thank you for pouring through every bit of that chicken that you could. You've gone more than the mile here & the info/pics you have shared are definitely going to be helpful to many here.



You are welcome. Very often we will find dead chickens in the barn yard and just bury them and shrug it off. I used to just figure chickens died and who knew why? It is because of the strong nature of knowledge furthering on this thread that I do necropsy even though I hate doing it. The strange thing is, I still get no cut and dried answers as to what happened exactly to my birds. Learn yes. Answers. No. But I will continue to do them when I can. The birds deserve that much. Though my flock are not pets, I honor them by giving them the best chance at a good life and when something goes wrong try to continue to honor them in death by learning how to do things better through what the necropsy teaches me.



Also, your entire reply was so sincere you nearly had me in tears. Right up until your last words...."The Balloon Chicken". I burst out laughing. *hugs*

I swear to you. If that chicken had been filled with helium instead of air, I could have tied a string to his foot or he would have floated away on the breeze.

 

[aoxa]

You would use olive oil for applications where you don't add heat. It will oxidize when heated, so use for salad dressings, etc. Coconut oil is stable under heat, so you use it for frying and heated applications (like you would use lard).

Coconut oil is solid at temperatures below 76 F., and becomes liquid at temperatures above 76F.

I checked my coconut oil container from Costco, and it's not the same one as online. It is 54 OZ like yours. Susan said it was 17.99 in store. So I wonder why Costco online has half the size for the same price... :/

I thought it looked much bigger than 500 grams!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
Just a note on the ff and sour crop...

Some folks have encouraged using YEAST in the fermented feed. This is NOT good fermented feed practice and is likely the cause of any issue that someone may have w/ sour crop.

When fermenting feed, LACTIC FERMENTATION should be used - not yeast fermentation. There is a complete write-up on the differences of these on the blog.

If lacto-fermentation is used, you won't smell yeast or alcohol in the feed. Even if you haven't added yeast to the mix, natural occurring yeasts are in the air and on surfaces everywhere. The key is to keep the yeasts under control by having lactic acid producing bacteria having the upper hand in the mix. Balance is key.

This is just another reason that: If your fermented feed ever smells of Yeast/Mold or Alcohol DO NOT FEED IT!