The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[emenheiser]

I agree with the comment about type before color, with one clarification: all of the needed color genes need to be present. The line that produced my pullet pictured does not have the pattern gene, and that is why she (and 90% of other "blue" birds shown today) is not laced, and never will be without an outcross. In my opinion, the only smart way to get the genes for proper blue color is from the original source, the Blue Andalusian. Because this creates such a step backward in type, it is probably better to make that cross earlier than later. Then the challenge becomes selecting for type in the offspring without losing the needed color genes.

One word of advice on the Andalusian cross: use as big and heavy bodied a "Rock" as you can. The Mediterranean size and shape is very distinct in the offspring, and difficult to lose. Particularly if using hatchery-type Rocks that have already been crossed with Leghorns. Here is a splash pullet that resulted from mating a Blue Andalusian male over a blue barred female that was 1/4 exhibition Barred Rock and 3/4 Cobb broiler breeder. She is still a bit refined for me, and her dam weighed 14lbs.

 

[tigercreek]

I think right now my biggest issue is my own learning style. I know what the SOP says a white rock should look like - but I prefer a hands on training lesson in what to keep and what to cull. That's a little hard to come by

Talk to the judges, and any breeders you meet when you go to that show - after the judging. Most will be very helpful......stan

 

[Kinmera]

Ok this is Martin - hatched last fall

.
This is Columbus's - Martin' father. He was purchased from a breeder near Kane, PA. Columbus is my sons 4 h show bird (that's my son with him)

Unfortunately no matter what I did. They both suffered because of the sub zero temps here this winter.

This is one that was given to me - no clue on his history. But I know the first owner got a mixed batch of chicks from cackle hatchery

And this is my Andalusian

 

[emenheiser]

I did not read the details of which White Rock threw blue, but in crossing any of these 3 males with an Andalusian, you are likely to get a very framey bird that will not demonstrate the proper fleshing ability for a dual purpose Rock. This is one of the main reasons I incorporated the Cobb broiler breeder blood in my Blue Rock project. Beyond that, one of the biggest challenges with Andalusian crosses (aside from the "simple" issues with skin color, earlobes, combs, etc.) is tails. Getting back to the proper Rock tail length, angle, feather width, and amount of lesser sickles and coverts is really tough. You need to use a Rock that has an ideal to slightly overdone tail, and all of the males above appear to be pretty devoid in the tail department. Finally, and most importantly, the Andalusian pictured above is not laced. In my opinion, there is no point in going through all of the headaches of the cross if you are not gaining the pattern gene and others required for proper Andalusian color.

 

[Kinmera]

Columbus would be the one who threw blue. Paul Kroll an APA judge who did our fair last year said he was a good specimen for breeding. The picture really did not do him justice and I'll have to try and get some better ones.
I do appreciate the input though. Maybe I'll just breed the blue Andalusian for an at home layer flock. Maybe I'll focus on the whites for now and when I'm confident there I'll branch into blues. As you said it will take me a couple of years to get my own white flock really on the right track

 

[racertomtom]

Nice work Joe! That's one of few blues I've seen that deserves to be a Plymouth Rock.

 

[racertomtom]

Type! Type ! Type! Build the barn then paint it! Why does everyone keep saying that?

The shape of the Plymouth Rock was no accident, the low hung breast and meaty thighs for the most popular sections of meat along with the moderately long, broad back to make room for large brown eggs is what made it the most popular dual purpose farm chicken. Without SOP type you can’t maintain its dual purpose status.

Also consider the SOP and the Poultry Shows. Shape makes the breed, color makes the variety. If I produce a well typed bird with so-so color, I’ve still represented the variety fairly well because it’s a good representative of the breed. If I produce a very well colored bird that looks as much like a leghorn as a rock, I haven’t represented the variety very well because it must first represent the breed.

I totally agree with Joe. It’s best to identify/gather the genetics required to make the variety before embarking on type, especially if doing an out cross. If you do this you will likely have what you need to work on color later. It’s easy to say “paint the barn” but you’ll eventually have to buy paint. Gathering genes later will likely destroy type.

Being a true SOP Plymouth Rock breeder is very challenging. You have to keep any eye on type, color, meat production in a reasonable amount of time and egg production all along the way.

Concentrating on shows, I made an error in judgment in the barreds and allowed the slow feathering gene to creep back in. The result was cockerels that take 12 months to fully mature. By then, you’ve got a tough and gamey table fowl that has been feed 5 months to long. My current goal is to produce a cockerel with a nice breast at 7 months without losing type or too much color. Wish me luck!

 

[Fred's Hens]

My current goal is to produce a cockerel with a nice breast at 7 months without losing type or too much color. Wish me luck!

What a concept.

 

[Fred's Hens]

If I had some fair to midland Whites, I'd put 99% of my starting focus right there. If you can make some respectable Whites, the knowledge and experienced gained will hold you in good stead. What better variety to begin with in establishing, fixing, imprinting the Rock type into the inner matrix of your mind's eye?

I can't think of a better place to start.

 

[racertomtom]

If I had some fair to midland Whites, I'd put 99% of my starting focus right there. If you can make some respectable Whites, the knowledge and experienced gained will hold you in good stead. What better variety to begin with in establishing, fixing, imprinting the Rock type into the inner matrix of your mind's eye?

I can't think of a better place to start.