The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Yard full o' rocks]

Fred, I got to thinking about one of our conversations today and the anticipation of next year's birds. Thoughts are already turning to breeding pens, lights, brooders, and mating pairs. Especially down here in the Deep South (aka God's Country)

As I was doing chores tonight, I was looking over a hen and a cockerel that I had already "determined" I was going to breed. As I looked them over a thought came to mind...."what are you trying to accomplish with this breeding?"....and as hard as I tried, I could not come up with a legitimate REASON or GOALS for what I wanted to achieve from that breeding pair. It was a though I were hit with a 2x4 across the forehead...." you're a breeder, not a propagator, so act like it".

All that said folks, as you set up pens this year keep in mind those of us on this thread are BREEDERS with intentions to move our birds closer and closer to the Standard each year. Ask yourself the question I failed to ask..."what do I want to accomplish from this breeding pen"?

My old boss at UPS used to preach "plan the work and work the plan"....same can be said for our hobby. To the contrary "if you fail to plan, you plan to fail" and I was enlightened by that thought myself tonight. I had NO plan for the selection I had made.

SO....

My plans changed dramatically this evening and I think Bob B would be proud as I think it exemplifies the KISS principle he preached to us.

I'll have 3 breeding pens this year....that's it, that's all

Pen 1 will contain the cockerel I took to Knoxville over a project pullet that is 3/4 Columbian (my line) and 1/4 Wheeler barred.
- several "goals" here, but primarily this will help me establish a secondary family line and hopefully the pullet is carrying the silver genetic I need to clean up the brassiness in my males

Pen 2 will be a hen I used last year for breeding who has nice type but even better color and she will be mated to her son
- goal here is primarily to improve the wing color on both sexes, the hackle color on the females and the striping on my males

Pen 3 will also be a hen from last year who has astounding width all the way back and will be bred to the same male as Pen 2
- goal in this pen is primarily for males....as I need to keep the width from front to back and I had quite a few this year that tapered (narrowed) slightly just past the hips

If all goes well, I'll hatch 18+/- from each pen....only giving me 4 dozen to look after and feed in 2015....but EACH with a specific goal for improvement.

Just thought I'd share a bit as I experienced my "ah ha" moment tonight

 

[Fred's Hens]

This winter, so far, has been so much more mild than last year. Still, our breeding season up here is extremely difficult to initiate before late February with expectations of hatching in late March.

Since this is a breeders thread, articulating clear goals is always, always what this thread is about.

The pullet who took #2 pullet in Knoxville is a great bird, but we've got to put some length into her.







To accomplish that, this is the male that I am presently considering. He's one of Ken Weaver's male and my present choice for mating her. I had his twin brother, but Ken's male has the lift in the tail that I also seek and the proper continuous concave swoop in the top line that I prefer. That he's super long and as wide a barn doesn't hurt my feelings at all. He's a bit young and will benefit from another two months of growth and maturity.





My other choice pullet is too young to judge quite yet. She's got good length but I'd like to give her a bit more front end. She has terrific feather, tight feathering that these birds are known for. I'll wait a bit on making the decision on her male mating.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Finally, I have this female. She is a good layer. She doesn't have the feather that I prefer, but is otherwise a good, long Rock. Her breast is deep and full. Her back "show"s, not have the tail sweep beginning at the base of the neck as so many Rocks do. She is incredibly wide in the tail and the tail feathers are wide and have good stiffness.

She's a twin sister to a female who took a #3 in Knoxville. Walt Leonard remarked that he liked her a lot, but our Rock judge didn't agree and placed her behind Matt's BV, BB hen, of course, Ken's RV RB pullet and my own #2 pullet. Lots of ways to go with this female, if I breed her at all. Still mulling over whether there's a match up worth making here. We'll see.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Let's talk heads.


I found this picture of some of our 75 pullets from well over a year ago. I like this photo because of the quality of the heads on these birds. Do not take nice heads for granted. It is pretty easy to introduce crow headedness into your breeding pens and live to regret it.



Notice this older pullet in the center. Take your cursor and trace her head in a circle. The high domed skull, the thick shape of the rear of the head, couple with a nice, short beak, the comb properly set above. The effect is almost a complete round circle you can trace with your cursor on your computer. That's the head I strive for.




Now, this little pullet was hatched last spring. She's a terrific bird and has so many nice points. But there's a horrid feature that has crept in. The dreaded crow headedness. Will she "out grow this" ??? No, this cannot be outgrown and time won't fix it. I have worse photos than this little P.

When the head is long as if someone squished the skull. That's a snake like look. When there is a "right angle" where the neck transitions into the top of the head? Have you seen that on a bird? It is very unattractive. When the beak seem too long in profile? That is crow headedness and the Standard shows great pencil drawings depicting the proper head vs the crow head. (in the invaluable first 40 pages)

This is what the tendency looks like on a young cockerel.






Not horrid on this cockerel, but far less than the proud head I would prefer to see. See how the head looks like somebody squished it?

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Great illustration Fred. One additional thing I like to watch is skull width, when looked at from overhead. I'll try to get some comparative pix tomorrow as to what I look at.

I can't stand to see a crow headed bird and I hate to see anyone move one forward. Certainly one of the key traits to watch and cull for.

 

[Fred's Hens]

We have spent a lot of time, over the past year or so, on head width. There's a "look" when a young bird has a super wide skull and it's unmistakeable when you see it. This long beaked, right angle head, squished look with no skull depth is classic crow head.

You CAN have a nice circular, high domed head without great width, and that' a good start. Get both a round dome and a wide skull, but before you can either one? Your "eye" must see the snake and the snake head has got to go!!!!

Here's some pix from the past on width.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Here a great teaching pic, although it was shot during −10F weather so the camera fogged and the birds are all scrunched up. BUT… the value in this photo is the contrast. Below is that pullet with the great round head and high skull. Note particularly the smooth, round line coming up her neck right up and over the top of the skull. A beautiful round curve. Gorgeous head.

Look at the top bird. Look how the line is not a round curve. Note that awful flat spot in her skull line. Awful.

See, I don't need to use other people's birds to show you good examples and awful examples. I just look through the photos I take of my own birds and I can usually find what I'm looking for, good and bad, for teaching examples. It's called selective breeding for a reason.

 

[katbriar]

Fred's Hens- I have nothing but hatchery birds, and several varieties at that. But I very much enjoy reading your posts and explanations. I learn so much with the way you describe things.

 

[maryhysong]

Fred, I got to thinking about one of our conversations today and the anticipation of next year's birds. Thoughts are already turning to breeding pens, lights, brooders, and mating pairs. Especially down here in the Deep South (aka God's Country)



My plans changed dramatically this evening and I think Bob B would be proud as I think it exemplifies the KISS principle he preached to us.
(snipped for brevity)

I too am thinking long and hard about how I will work with all my breeds and what I want to accomplish this year..

This year's hatches of buff rocks was pretty disappointing; a couple cross beaks, LOADS of squirrel tails and short backs in the Ks lots of cushion on the Ps. LOTS of cow hocks, some so bad the hocks were physically touching. Way too much fluff and not enough actual substance on any of them. I was going to scrap the whole project.

BUT I really hate to. People out here have never heard of this variety let alone seen one. They are rare and hard to find anywhere, but most especially west of the Mississippi. So I talked myself out of selling off the whole lot.

Acquired a white rock pullet. She has a little bit of a cushion, but she has a lot to offer the buffs, wider, thicker feathers, less under fluff, wider skull, a lot of size, good width between the legs which are nice and straight. I'm waiting for her to start laying. I'm not even hatching from any of the buff hens this year. I'll breed this pullet to my buff cock and hatch some chicks. Just watch them grow and see what we end up with, then decide where to go from there. Then she'll go to my partner's to breed to the most promising cockerel we had this year.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Maryhysong

Breeding that white pullet sounds like a good idea to me. Joe Emenheiser and I were emailing the other day and he stated that some of the whites out there are likely "hiding" buff (along with other colors) inder that white! Offspring might just surprise you

Dont get overwhelmed with the color....just the type and VIGOR you are likely to get