The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Fred's Hens]

This photo was likely taken even earlier, perhaps early 1900's.

Similar look. Anyone beside me see how the white percentage was much higher?

 

[alana124]

Wow, they look beautiful, Fred's Hens. I like the white percentage too.

And please pray for my little chicks! I ordered them from XW and they're IN THE MAIL tonight! I AM SO SCARED the PO will somehow mess it up!! They won't, right? This is very exciting, however.

I hope the chicks make the trip safely.

 

[alana124]

This K intriques me. He is a 75 bird, but his barring is more a throw back to the 50-50 birds in that he is light colored. What intrigues me is his sheer size. He feathered in very quickly, (good thing) and had size right out of the shell. He dwarfs the other K's of his age. Note that P next to him.



Here he is with his head in the feeder. No surprise.

I know I want to see him grow up and Be-All-That-He-Can-Be. While his sire was a very stout male, (my avatar) this guy is something else. I'm wondering how long it will take for the other K's to catch him. He wins the "most interesting" bird of the 2014 hatch. hmmmmmm….

He's a fine specimen, indeed. But he can't get too big, correct? Only a few pounds are allowed over the SOP limit? And what breed are the dark birds in with him?

 

[Fred's Hens]

Your concerns are valid. I do honor the weight of the standard. Others may do as they wish, but 1/2 pound over the standard is the limit or it is too heavy for me. The reasons are loyalty to the standard? Well, yes, but only because that IS the breed. If I want good egg laying, and I do, then I want the bird as it was intended to be. This is why I posted those historical photos, one reason anyway.

A cock should be 9.5 pounds. A hen should be 7.5 pounds. It is urgent, in my view, to hit those marks like a stage dancer on Broadway. I consider a pound under to be too light.

Now a contentious statement, perhaps. A good Rock, of good and true breeding will not have to be GINORMOUS to hit those marks. A Rock should be solid as a rock and surprise the uninitiated by their heft, in relationship to overall size, when picked up for the first time.

It's one of my favorites things to do. To bid a customer to go ahead, pick that cockerel right there off the roost. Then, go ahead and take that pullet next to him. I love the looks on their faces when they handle my birds for the first time.

 

[Fred's Hens]

And what breed are the dark birds in with him?

Those are Rhode Island Reds. My work-in-progress line.

 

[Fred's Hens]

My guess is that he is NOT going to blow through the standard weight of 9 to 10 pounds. Here's my heart and my gut talking, but I believe his breeding simply is working. Early feathering. Earlier maturing. He was also hatched "early" by this year's measuring stick. I believe and I hope to heck I'm right, that this is just a K that is growing as they are supposed to grow.

We've all become accustomed to such glacial growth/feathering/maturity rates. When a K feathers in normally and matures somewhat quickly, there may be a tendency to be concerned. Honestly, I'm much more excited than I am concerned. I hope he doesn't prove me wrong.

OH, and don't you think he looks an awful lot like those historical photos of cockerels about his age? 7-8 weeks.

 

[alana124]

Those are Rhode Island Reds. My work-in-progress line.

Well, they're gorgeous works in progress, sir.

I was reading though, that 1 -2 lbs over the standard's weight was acceptable, but no more as "such unusually large birds almost invariably get away from the good Plymouth Rock type." -(Lamon and Slocum; The Mating and Breeding of Poultry 1920, pg. 69). But yes, I agree 1 lb under is a no-no.

Now a contentious statement, perhaps. A good Rock, of good and true breeding will not have to be GINORMOUS to hit those marks. A Rock should be solid as a rock and surprise the uninitiated by their heft, in relationship to overall size, when picked up for the first time.

It's one of my favorites things to do. To bid a customer to go ahead, pick that cockerel right there off the roost. Then, go ahead and take that pullet next to him. I love the looks on their faces when they handle my birds for the first time.

I just can't wait to have the same experiences, with great true to breed birds as you. If I could be so lucky.

 

[emenheiser]

Your concerns are valid. I do honor the weight of the standard. Others may do as they wish, but 1/2 pound over the standard is the limit or it is too heavy for me. The reasons are loyalty to the standard? Well, yes, but only because that IS the breed. If I want good egg laying, and I do, then I want the bird as it was intended to be. This is why I posted those historical photos, one reason anyway.

A cock should be 9.5 pounds. A hen should be 7.5 pounds. It is urgent, in my view, to hit those marks like a stage dancer on Broadway. I consider a pound under to be too light.

Now a contentious statement, perhaps. A good Rock, of good and true breeding will not have to be GINORMOUS to hit those marks. A Rock should be solid as a rock and surprise the uninitiated by their heft, in relationship to overall size, when picked up for the first time.

It's one of my favorites things to do. To bid a customer to go ahead, pick that cockerel right there off the roost. Then, go ahead and take that pullet next to him. I love the looks on their faces when they handle my birds for the first time.

The standard weights are an indicator of function, but the attribute of importance is the ability to produce eggs and meat efficiently. The problem with the standard weights, given the description of economic qualities that they follow, is precisely that they were written for the Plymouth Rock population (and the culture/economy) of over 100 years ago. There has been substantial progress by the commercial industries since that time in selection for the attributes that are economically important. The genetic parameters of the breed in 1900, including the correlations between such things as body weight and egg production, are no longer the same. Furthermore, grain costs are substantially higher (necessitating better feed efficiency), fewer folks have the skill/patience to prepare older fowl (necessitating earlier growth curves) etc. Times have changed. Romanticism about the past gives warm fuzzy feelings, and I too enjoy and learn from the pictures. But the hard truth is that function is far more important than form, for any breed that wishes to claim economic importance. The Plymouth Rock was developed by practical people, people who if they were alive today and saw that we now have the genetic potential to make birds with feed conversion approaching 2:1, with dressing percentages in excess of 70% AND that grow up to lay 200 eggs/year, would think that we were completely nuts to ignore 100 years of selective progress opting instead to romanticize the past. So what if it meant that our birds weighed more than the weights they found to be optimal in their time? Modern 15 lb broiler breeders, which originated from White Rocks, can and do lay enough eggs to be profitable and run around like bantams, if objectively selected for production and vigor as they have been. Anyone who says that they lack the ability to forage/thrive in backyard scenarios is lacking experience themselves. Want to talk about looks on faces? Have a judge pull a 10 lb Blue Rock hen with 1/4 broiler blood out of her show cage, and then tell him honestly that she laid 150 eggs that year.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Joe, I've got K's that blew right through the standard weight. Here's my concern, and I am wide open to your thoughts. I've grown to dislike the lack of athletic ability I see in the males that go over 11 pounds. I've got some over 12 pounds, to be honest.

I've only recently began to consider nimble, athleticism as a trait that pleases me. I've personally decided that I do not care for the rather gangly, gawky, nazi walking males that far too many of our males exhibit, males we've bred. Just a personal bias, but I do have to enjoy them.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Your remark about being nimble as bantams is what cued this thought up in my mind.

 

[Silver Rock]

A few pictures of my Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks. Two of these pullets I really like and I will definitely be using them in the breeding pens next Spring. As for the other three pullets if possible I will replaced them with pullets of better type from the chicks that I am growing out this year.