Thinking about breeding chickens (crested cream legbars), questions

[SpotTheCat]

In a few months I am hoping to get some crested cream legbars and I was thinking of breeding them to the SOP, but I am not sure with my limited space that it would be really possible.

The questions

-how many coops of what size do you think I would need? brooders? I would love to hear about what other people setups are like as well! Pictures are all ways welcome

-can you get anywhere with breeding only a few chicks a year?

-what do you do with the adult culls? I don’t have any way of dispatching adults only chicks

-information on breeding legbars would be appreciated

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Honestly, legbars need a ton of work. If you have a small space and don't want to hatch out and then grow out a ton of birds, if encourage you to work on a breed that is better established and needs more "fine tuning" work than a total overhaul. Legbars are just about my favorite breed but they need a LOT of work.

 

[Amer]

With limited space, I have made steady improvements on bantam Buckeyes which were a rare breed when I acquired them(which means they needed work and still do). I managed by hatching less than 50 a year in limited space, though they are bantams. They share the coop with other breeds and have their own breeding cages.
My mother made improvements with her Ancona largefowl with even less birds hatched per year.
The only problem is because of their flaws and the small sample sizes, we had to deal with a few setbacks.
What is the moral of my story? I guess, don’t give up, but expect setbacks. Every cockerel is valuable and keep every chick until you can judge them (except in your case where you cull those who don’t have the auto-sexing qualities I suppose.) Who knows which cockerel will the best? This year I hatched some very good cockerels, but the pullets all inherited black from their father. The only progress I made was in cockerels!
Also, hatch at least 20. You can reduce this to 2-4 when the season is done.
Also, learn how to dispatch birds whether you butcher them or trash them or leave them for wildlife to eat (if there is a place for that.) You can sell or give away roosters for meat or pets, but you can never expect a market for that. Also, if you have sick, deformed or injured birds, culling is the way (unless injury is treatable.) Weakness and disease is the worst fault you could have in any breed.
A small space is easily doable, if you focus on just one breed. Just make sure you have space to separate the breeding birds from hens you might use for laying. And keep the adults separate from the chicks.

Oh and don’t forget, Legbars might not turn out to be your favorite breed. I thought I was going to be this great Ameraucana breeder 5 years ago. Turns out, d’Anvers have my heart.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

So they are difficult do you think it would be any different in the uk? What sort of issue have you ran in to?

I probably will get them anyway! Because I am looking at legbars because they fit everything I want from a chicken breed, whether I want to breed or not. Also we want to keep a rooster so we can hatch more pullets when we need them so I my as well select the best to keep. All the other autosexing breeds seem to be rarer

I mean, if your goal is to just.... make more Legbars sure. You can do that. But you won't be able to make much progress towards breeding to the SOP with them.

I don't know what their status is in the UK, though. I'm a US breeder and they're honestly all over the map here, quality-wise. But also, they aren't officially accepted by our national poultry club, so even though we have an SOP there is little incentive for many to breed to the standard since showing is... less than incentivizing. I suspect in the UK you will also find breeders that breed to standard and those that breed with more of a production focus. Talking with breeders there would yield a better as to where the breed is and what's realistic with the stock available to you.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I aim for hatching an absolute minimum of 100 per variety but I cull a lot from the brooder still. With legbars you can cull ambiguous marked chicks at hatch, anything that's not thriving, crooked toes, splash legs. By a couple of weeks old I'm looking for ugly combs, good growth rates, nice width and straight legs and toes, good body feel/condition in hand. I'm culling continuously for the best type and best growth and vigor of the bunch but usually will still grow 25 cockerels and 25 pullets out to 16-20 weeks of age, then cull more for best production qualities when it comes time to butcher the cockerels and when when the girls start laying.

You can reduce how many you have to hatch and grow out by single mating with purpose and keeping great records of what each pair produces.

Ultimately, though, it's going to come down to how good a quality you start with and how many you have room to grow out.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

You'll need a way to get rid of cull adults, whether it's killing or selling. There are quite a few things you can't see as chicks. Technically you only need one coop if that's the only breed you have, but more is always better

 

[SpotTheCat]

With limited space, I have made steady improvements on bantam Buckeyes which were a rare breed when I acquired them(which means they needed work and still do). I managed by hatching less than 50 a year in limited space, though they are bantams. They share the coop with other breeds and have their own breeding cages.
My mother made improvements with her Ancona largefowl with even less birds hatched per year.
The only problem is because of their flaws and the small sample sizes, we had to deal with a few setbacks.
What is the moral of my story? I guess, don’t give up, but expect setbacks. Every cockerel is valuable and keep every chick until you can judge them (except in your case where you cull those who don’t have the auto-sexing qualities I suppose.) Who knows which cockerel will the best? This year I hatched some very good cockerels, but the pullets all inherited black from their father. The only progress I made was in cockerels!
Also, hatch at least 20. You can reduce this to 2-4 when the season is done.
Also, learn how to dispatch birds whether you butcher them or trash them or leave them for wildlife to eat (if there is a place for that.) You can sell or give away roosters for meat or pets, but you can never expect a market for that. Also, if you have sick, deformed or injured birds, culling is the way (unless injury is treatable.) Weakness and disease is the worst fault you could have in any breed.
A small space is easily doable, if you focus on just one breed. Just make sure you have space to separate the breeding birds from hens you might use for laying. And keep the adults separate from the chicks.

Oh and don’t forget, Legbars might not turn out to be your favorite breed. I thought I was going to be this great Ameraucana breeder 5 years ago. Turns out, d’Anvers have my heart.

Thank you! this is very helpful. I can probably dispatch a adult if I really need to (diseased, injured, etc) but its not something I can do in large amounts. I have a co2 chamber for my rodents so I am going to look in to using that for anything coturnix quail size or smaller. not sure what I will do with the adults Maybe I can find somebody who would want them for meat

 

[nicalandia]

In a few months I am hoping to get some crested cream legbars and I was thinking of breeding them to the SOP, but I am not sure with my limited space that it would be really possible.

The questions

-how many coops of what size do you think I would need? brooders? I would love to hear about what other people setups are like as well! Pictures are all ways welcome

-can you get anywhere with breeding only a few chicks a year?

-what do you do with the adult culls? I don’t have any way of dispatching adults only chicks

-information on breeding legbars would be appreciated

You may want to post that here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/the-legbar-thread.459044/

 

[SpotTheCat]

Honestly, legbars need a ton of work. If you have a small space and don't want to hatch out and then grow out a ton of birds, if encourage you to work on a breed that is better established and needs more "fine tuning" work than a total overhaul. Legbars are any my favorite breed but they need a LOT of work.

So they are difficult do you think it would be any different in the uk? What sort of issue have you ran in to?

I probably will get them anyway! Because I am looking at legbars because they fit everything I want from a chicken breed, whether I want to breed or not. Also we want to keep a rooster so we can hatch more pullets when we need them so I my as well select the best to keep. All the other autosexing breeds seem to be rarer

 

[SpotTheCat]

I mean, if your goal is to just.... make more Legbars sure. You can do that. But you won't be able to make much progress towards breeding to the SOP with them.

I don't know what their status is in the UK, though. I'm a US breeder and they're honestly all over the map here, quality-wise. But also, they aren't officially accepted by our national poultry club, so even though we have an SOP there is little incentive for many to breed to the standard since showing is... less than incentivizing. I suspect in the UK you will also find breeders that breed to standard and those that breed with more of a production focus. Talking with breeders there would yield a better as to where the breed is and what's realistic with the stock available to you.

how many chicks would you need a year to make progress?