To Worm or Not? And, Piperazine dosage for bantams?

[DreamingOfAFarm]

Okay. Need some help here. I was told that I should give my 4 week old pullets fenbendazole (10%) but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't? The girls have gapeworm and some are starting to get pretty thin. Any suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated. If it is okay to use the fenbendazole, what dosage do I use in their water/feed? Thanks for your help!!!

 

[threehorses]

If your birds truly have gapeworm and you've been advised by a trusted source to do it, then yes - you technically can do it even though I do NOT like worming babies that age. But if the source is very trusted and they swear to you it's gapeworm, then gapeworm will simply kill babies. (I'll leave the diagnosing to them as I don't have enough information here to make that call). Thankfully fenbendazole is a quite safe wormer.

First, here's a helpful article with a bit on gapeworm and fenbendazole:
SOURCE: http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/disparas.htm

Their dosage recommendation is a paste mixed with water and then mixed into feed. We'll break down the dosage, but here's the text:

QUOTE:
----------------------
"PARASITE (INTERNAL) SOLUTIONS

The following treatments have been shown to be effective for eliminating internal parasites from poultry and game birds. Neither of these drugs (fenbendazole or leviamisole) has been approved for use by FDA, so the producer accepts all responsibility for their use. Both drugs have been very effective if used properly and will eliminate most types of internal parasites that affect birds. Caution: Do not use with birds producing eggs or meat destined for human consumption.

Fenbendazole Treatments

One-day Treatment

1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed

Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.

Safeguard is a product of Ralston Purina, and Panacur is a product marketed by American Hoechst. One ounce of medication will treat about 1000 10-oz bobwhite quail. Adjustments of the amounts of medication and feed needed may be necessary depending on the number and size of the birds...."
----------------------------
QUOTE:
"Fenbendazole has been shown to be a very effective treatment for eliminating Capillaria (capillary worms), Heterakis (cecal worms), Ascaridia (roundworms), and Syngamus spp. (gapeworms). Toxicity from overdosing with fenbendazole is very remote. Research indicates that amounts up to 100 times the recommended dosages have been given under research conditions without adverse effects to the birds. Use of this product during molt, however, may cause deformity of the emerging feathers."
------------------------------
SOURCE:
http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html
------------------------------

OK, now - let's work this out as they have it dosed.

One ounce = 30cc'*s = recommended treatment for 20 lbs of feed.

divide that all by 10
1/10th ounce = 3 cc's = treatment for 2 pounds of feed.

*Actually it's 29.5735296 cc's but I rounded up.

So get a syringe and measure out 3 cc's of SafeGuard paste for horses. It's 10%.(** see below.) Mix that in about 1/8th of a cup of water. Mix with the crumbles and let it set for about 10 minutes til it absorbs. Feed as their only source of feed for the day, and replace regular crumbles when all of that food is gone.

Make sure all babies get a good bit of it. Note that they're growing feathers, and so their feathers will likely be a little funky.

** Here's an example of a tube:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp...10551_10001_37082_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1
- or the tiny link -
http://tinyurl.com/tscsfenbenforhorses


I hope this helps.

 

[DreamingOfAFarm]

Thanks threehorses! do you think it would be okay to use safeguard for goats (it's also 10%)?

Here's a link to what I already purchased...http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp...02|14625|34642?listingPage=true&Special=false

thanks so much!!!

 

[threehorses]

It looks like it's fine. You'd use 3 cc's of this, but be sure to shake well to get the wormer into suspension.

It's still 10%, 100mg/ml . Just a suspension instead of a paste.

Usually SafeGuard paste is usually the same between species. We use cattle tubes on the horses here because we can get more for less cost than the horse wormer.

Then we have backup tubes for when we reworm.

 

[KayP]

Hey all,
I put 5 drops of Invermectin on my chickens necks on 7/30 after I found a 3" round worm on the dropping board, and then yesterday, 8/11 there was another big ol' roundworm. I put 5 more drops on them today. Is this the correct dosage? What else can I do? I just bought DE to dust the yard and coop with and I'll start them on a regimen of daily yogurt/garlic/cayenne pepper, but I'm starting to get discouraged.

 

[threehorses]

W need to know what size they are but yeah. But actually you didn't have to redose - you're seeing them because they're dead and passing out of the bird. Don't redo their worming now for another 4-6 weeks. you shouldn't have to do it then.

If you want you can do a gentle cleansing of a little molasses in some water for a day, and a little applesauce in a damp mash of water, crumbles, and applesauce to help cleanse all of that out of their system. You can use about 1 really heaping tablespoon to a gallon of water.

Now just worm them with the ivermectin twice a year and use your DE and cayenne inbetween. Yogurt doesn't have to be daily. Just use weekly.

Please please please don't be discouraged - what you're seeing is brilliant! It's dying worms. Live worms stay in the bird. It's working just as you want it to.

 

[KayP]

I'm so glad you got back on this! You're encouragement helps my chickens' mama so much! I hope that added dosage of Invermectin doesn't hurt them.

They're pretty big girls- 6-8 lbs. I dusted the yard yesterday morning and today bought 3 things of cayenne.

The worm I saw was not dead, but was moving pretty slowly, if that's a sign it's dying... I know earth worms move pretty fast when they're vigorous, so maybe a slow roundworm is a good sign. I keep checking poop and haven't seen anything unusual and it seems like that yucky sweet smell of the poop (not to gross anyone out, but kind of like diarrhea) has been less the last couple of days. The girls seems pretty peppy, too, at least when the temp is bearable. Thanks so much for your input, Threehorses.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
LOL! Well I'm just as happy to help the chickens' mama as much as i am to help the chickens, maybe even more so.

Ivermectin is pretty hard to overdose. If you did, you'd see 'drunk chickens' more likely. If they're fine now, they sure won't have worms for a while. lol

The worm you saw was "paralyzed" for lack of a better word as it was still moving. Wazine disables them from holding on to the inside of the gut and that's how it expels them, and in the environment they can't live long. Ivermectin kills and paralyzes, mostly kills. So you'll probably keep seeing them. That's ok as long as it stops in once a week or so has passed.

I'd definitely write down what you think their weight is now, if not weigh them, and compare in a couple of weeks. Should be interesting!

 

[ebonyann]

Quote:
LOL! Well I'm just as happy to help the chickens' mama as much as i am to help the chickens, maybe even more so.

Ivermectin is pretty hard to overdose. If you did, you'd see 'drunk chickens' more likely. If they're fine now, they sure won't have worms for a while. lol

The worm you saw was "paralyzed" for lack of a better word as it was still moving. Wazine disables them from holding on to the inside of the gut and that's how it expels them, and in the environment they can't live long. Ivermectin kills and paralyzes, mostly kills. So you'll probably keep seeing them. That's ok as long as it stops in once a week or so has passed.

I'd definitely write down what you think their weight is now, if not weigh them, and compare in a couple of weeks. Should be interesting!

As far as overdosing go's, we had a cat that knocked an ivermectin bottle down and broke it, then drank a BUNCH of it. The only noticeable effect was that she looked ill afterward like she was seasick or something and she foamed at the mouth for an hour or so, but after that she was fine and I'm pretty sure she got really fat and sassy after that.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
LOL Ohhh boy!! I bet that was interesting. Of course probably not very funny after it happened - I bet that was scary, but what a great story since she was fine!