training a dog to leave chickens alone

[debramr1]

hi i have quite a large dog and we introduced him slowly to the chickens when we got them...always under supervision at first...gradually over time he has come to love them and is quite protective of his'girls'....to be honest he thinks he is a chicken now as i find him quite often in the coop with them...(most of the time eating their corn!!)....

 

[IAFarmGirl]

Bolded for emphasis. Well said, Sparrow. People are lucky if they got a good dog, but don't count on it. Even with special classes a dog's instinct is to kill or 'play with' small critters. Chickens are bite-sized for some large breeds.

I've considered getting a LGD if I ever get goats/sheep, but not for just chickens or quail (settled on the latter). That's like tying a steak to its neck and telling it NOT to salivate.

I agree that dogs are predators but with that said you should know that LUCK is not a good way to get a good dog. Everyone should read what cafarmgirl wrote above...THAT is the way to consistently get good dogs over and over. The problem is that most people quit too soon in training a dog...it takes time and patience to get a dog that can be trusted with livestock.

 

[Quailsong]

You can train just about any dog at any age. It all depends on the tools you use.

One training tool I will NEVER EVER use are treats to reward good behavior.
When treats are used, what happens when you don't have treats.
You can easily tell a dog that has been trained with treats when seeing them with the owner or handler.
Watch the dog, if it is always looking at the handlers hand or hands, guess where the treats were.

Praise and affection are much better of a reward for obedience and good behavior. Your never without those.

Consistency and repetitive training exercises are by far the most important tasks to master for both owner and dog.

Start with the basics. NO........SIT..........DOWN..........STAY.
You can not expect a dog understand chickens or anything else that matter are off limits if they don't obey the basic commands instantly.

I always use a choker chain to train. The chain needs to be the correct size and used properly.
It must be able to release with no tension applied for it to work. If it doesn't chances are it is on backwards
To correct a dog with a choker chain, simply snap the leash back quickly just to the point of tightening around the dogs neck and then release it.
It is the zzzzziiiiiipppppppp sound of the ring moving on the chain and the feel of the slight tightening around the dogs neck that gets the dog attention and re focuses them.

Correct your dog instantly when they make a mistake.
With practice you will be able to tell they are about loose focus or do something undesirable correct with just a word.

If chain is tight around the dogs throat and / or the dog ever chokes......it is not being used correctly.
It is miss use that caused so many people to think that a choker chain is a cruel way to correct a dogs behavior.

I have never needed to use a shock collar on any of the dozens of dogs i have trained because they know what i say is what they are to do, even when they are out of my reach.


I have a 70lb chocolate lab that i got from a rescue when she was 3. She was a holy terror when i brought her home.
She would chase anything that moved with intent to kill. I worked with her for a week before i would let her out on her own.
I kept my eye on her for the next couple of weeks with only a strong NO to correct the chase / hunt instinct that flair up every once in a while.

Since then i have had no problem with her at all. Cats will literally use her as a rubbing post. She was even adopted by a kitten.

When i got chickens this spring, I had no reservations about letting them free range with her outside unsupervised.
She has been surrounded by the chickens, had them run under her, even pecked with no action taken by the lab.
The chickens actually feel safer with her around and are more adventurous when she is near.

Well said.

 

[Quailsong]

I agree that dogs are predators but with that said you should know that LUCK is not a good way to get a good dog. Everyone should read what cafarmgirl wrote above...THAT is the way to consistently get good dogs over and over. The problem is that most people quit too soon in training a dog...it takes time and patience to get a dog that can be trusted with livestock.

I agree and did read what was said above. I think there are some very good posts added here since my last visit. Some people (general) are looking for a quick fix and 'free' security for their pens. Or to make extra use of pet their dogs already.

Luck/chance is involved, but so is a lot of training for the pet and the owner. This is not a road to go down lightly. I totally agree there.

I've considered getting a LGD for the new house I'm moving into, even though the property is fairly small & will be pretty secure. I won't be moving again for another 5 or so years, but the next house after will be on a large farm that I feel will require a LGD. I'm thinking it'll be better to train the dog before the move, so that when I do have free-ranging critters, it'll be out of its puppy stage and far less likely to be a prob.

But that just supports the other well thought-out threads here - having a LGD requires a lot of forethought & patience.

 

[centrarchid]

Here is a thread concerning trials and tribulations with my most recent efforts concerning use of dogs as LGD's. Mine are not bred specifically for purpose but no breed has been developed specifically for poultry. In the end it is not just about the dog or technique used. It is complex and ever changing. My system is not only way nor do I think it is best but it does work and I am confident it can work with any pup as starting point.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/426408/planned-livestock-guarding-dog-for-poultry

 

[NikonD2xer]

Here is a thread concerning trials and tribulations with my most recent efforts concerning use of dogs as LGD's. Mine are not bred specifically for purpose but no breed has been developed specifically for poultry. In the end it is not just about the dog or technique used. It is complex and ever changing. My system is not only way nor do I think it is best but it does work and I am confident it can work with any pup as starting point.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/426408/planned-livestock-guarding-dog-for-poultry

Great thread Centrarchid. I can hardly wait to read the rest of it.

Dogs are not Predators. Dogs become predators through the failure of their humans.

All dogs are tools and have been used as such for tens of thousands of years.

They are used to alleviate loneliness, provide companionship, used for protection, provide mobility, locating and taking of game, etc etc etc.
Just like any tool, in the wrong hands, bad things can happen. It is a matter of choosing the correct tool for the task you need preformed.

Centrarchid just showed that breed is less of an issue than the proper training.

I wonder how many of the people calling all dogs predators have dog and small children.
Would I let a predator into my house or around my small nieces and nephews? NO WAY NO HOW.

Anyone stating that all dogs are predators; or this breed is dangerous; or lumping anything or anyone into a single group and putting a label on it is misinformed, prejudice and extremely closed minded and completely wrong.

 

[Habibs Hens]

Great thread Centrarchid. I can hardly wait to read the rest of it.

Dogs are not Predators. Dogs become predators through the failure of their humans.

All dogs are tools and have been used as such for tens of thousands of years.

They are used to alleviate loneliness, provide companionship, used for protection, provide mobility, locating and taking of game, etc etc etc.
Just like any tool, in the wrong hands, bad things can happen. It is a matter of choosing the correct tool for the task you need preformed.

Centrarchid just showed that breed is less of an issue than the proper training.

I wonder how many of the people calling all dogs predators have dog and small children.
Would I let a predator into my house or around my small nieces and nephews? NO WAY NO HOW.

Anyone stating that all dogs are predators; or this breed is dangerous; or lumping anything or anyone into a single group and putting a label on it is misinformed, prejudice and extremely closed minded and completely wrong.

Would you let a Grey wolf in your house??????

Grey Wolf is a predator

think about that then read about the origins of the Domestic Dog???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

 

[Sparrow]

Great thread Centrarchid. I can hardly wait to read the rest of it.

Dogs are not Predators. Dogs become predators through the failure of their humans.

All dogs are tools and have been used as such for tens of thousands of years.

They are used to alleviate loneliness, provide companionship, used for protection, provide mobility, locating and taking of game, etc etc etc.
Just like any tool, in the wrong hands, bad things can happen. It is a matter of choosing the correct tool for the task you need preformed.

Centrarchid just showed that breed is less of an issue than the proper training.

I wonder how many of the people calling all dogs predators have dog and small children.
Would I let a predator into my house or around my small nieces and nephews? NO WAY NO HOW.

Anyone stating that all dogs are predators; or this breed is dangerous; or lumping anything or anyone into a single group and putting a label on it is misinformed, prejudice and extremely closed minded and completely wrong.

Dogs are not predators? You need to take a closer look at the species. Canis lupus familiaris. That places the dog as a subspecies of Canis lupus...the Grey Wolf. All canines are predators, many scavenge as well. ALL are carnivores. Look at their dentition, look at their absolute need to eat meat, and look at the way they behave when running feral in a pack. They revert right back to their natural predatory instincts. Herding dogs are acting on predatory stalking.hunting techniques, while being taught to control to the desire to finish the job and kill. All dogs are, by lineage and by design, predators. We can teach them not to kill to a certain point, but that does not change what they are genetically.

 

[blondie34]

I have trained my hunting dog to be nice to and actually take care of our flock so it CAN be done! If I can turn my little killer into a "mama hen" anyone can do it! My lab comes hunting with us and retrieves goose, pheasants, ducks, you name it. When we first got chickens it was definitely an issue as he was used to carrying birds around in his mouth

What I did was a lot of heavy training and contact with the chicks and hens. I would hold a chicken in my hand and ask him to smell it and "make nice" like I tell him with my nieces/nephews.. if he got too interested and tried to lick to hard or do anything unsavory I would swat him in the bucket and put him in time out while I held the chicken in my arms to let him know that he was bad and that I care for the chickens. Since dogs like to please their masters I think it "clicked" when he saw me handling them and loving on them so often.


We've had chickens for a few years now and now Remington takes care of chicks and loves to be around his brothers and sisters.















it can be done

 

[NikonD2xer]

Would you let a Grey wolf in your house??????

Grey Wolf is a predator

think about that then read about the origins of the Domestic Dog???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

NO i would not let wolf or a wolf cross into my home. Being wild, cage raised hand raised their lineage is TOO close to wild and there fore unpredictable.

I know the origin of the domestic dog. There are countless generations of selective breeding to subdue undesirable and unneeded characteristics and to pronounce the the attributes deemed valuable by the breeder.

Are the WILD traits still there ? absolutely but there are minimized and manageable

Dogs are not predators? You need to take a closer look at the species. Canis lupus familiaris. That places the dog as a subspecies of Canis lupus...the Grey Wolf. All canines are predators, many scavenge as well. ALL are carnivores. Look at their dentition, look at their absolute need to eat meat, and look at the way they behave when running feral in a pack. They revert right back to their natural predatory instincts. Herding dogs are acting on predatory stalking.hunting techniques, while being taught to control to the desire to finish the job and kill. All dogs are, by lineage and by design, predators. We can teach them not to kill to a certain point, but that does not change what they are genetically.

You need to look at the definition of predator.

Merriam Webster 1: one that preys, destroys, or devours 2: an animal that lives by predation
Wikipedia predation describes a biological interaction where a predator (an organism that is hunting) feeds on its prey (the organism that is attacked)

Just because a dog has linage of predation from 30,000 years ago doesn't make them a predator. They need to be allowed to act on those distant instincts to become a predator. The vast majority of dogs in US have not killed or eaten anything other than a chew toy. Why is that ? They have not been allowed to do so.

All I was saying is that a dog only becomes a predator because of fault of it owner. It is not the dogs fault