training a dog to leave chickens alone

[NikonD2xer]

be very very careful there Blondie34.

you have an extremely vicious predator there

actually many seeing chicks and chickens hunt destroy and devour all kinds of bugs

Great photos.

 

[doop]

This has been discussed many times on here and a few very good posts on this go around. First you can't just get a good dog they are made from the day you take them home. I don't mean to be rude, but I believe most pet owners that don't train there dog for consistent obedience from the get go probably don't have either the patience or persistence to follow it through. For those that want to change that you need basic obedience first, its not as hard as some might think. It's about positive reinforcement(praise the heck out of them when they do it right) a simple no or no responce at all when wrong. A basic obedience training book and or video will go a long way, and if you stick with it you will be much happier with your dog, and you will take great pride in doing it yourself. Good luck.

 

[centrarchid]

Whether the dog is a predator is not the most important issue. My dogs are predators and practicing carnivores in that they will consume rodents, rabbits, snakes, fish and small songbirds with little hesitation. The will consume any and all such items in close proximity to even free-ranging chickens that are looking for scraps of those kills. Until recently both dogs were a definite risk to sheep and goats, both of which I intend to acquire in near future and same dogs are expected to not bother if not actively defend from something like a coyote as they currently do with chickens.

What is important is I have ruled out certain potential prey from the list possible prey types. This is done already with your house pets so that do not go after your kids or mailman. With our dogs used to hunt raccoons, we take steps to go only after raccoons even when they cross a hotter track left by a rabbit or deer which are either easier to catch or provide more bang for the buck if they were to take it down. Sometimes it is done through imprinting, sometimes training, and sometimes a combination of both. Even the wolf could be so trained although likely with a bit more difficulty.


The OP's objective is to get the predator switch turned off consistently with respect to poultry. This can be achieved through a range of methods which can be beneficial to all parties. Dogs have been bred intentionally or otherwise to be so malleable. Some of what made so easy is the very intelligent and adaptable wolf from which they are derived.

 

[Sparrow]

NO i would not let wolf or a wolf cross into my home. Being wild, cage raised hand raised their lineage is TOO close to wild and there fore unpredictable.

I know the origin of the domestic dog. There are countless generations of selective breeding to subdue undesirable and unneeded characteristics and to pronounce the the attributes deemed valuable by the breeder.

Are the WILD traits still there ? absolutely but there are minimized and manageable



You need to look at the definition of predator.

Merriam Webster 1: one that preys, destroys, or devours 2: an animal that lives by predation
Wikipedia predation describes a biological interaction where a predator (an organism that is hunting) feeds on its prey (the organism that is attacked)

Just because a dog has linage of predation from 30,000 years ago doesn't make them a predator. They need to be allowed to act on those distant instincts to become a predator. The vast majority of dogs in US have not killed or eaten anything other than a chew toy. Why is that ? They have not been allowed to do so.

All I was saying is that a dog only becomes a predator because of fault of it owner. It is not the dogs fault

I fully understand the definition of predator. If a dog was placed in a scenario(ie. feral) in which it had to care for itself to survive, they would certainly prey upon other animals in order to obtain food. They would not graze on grass, or eat fruit, they would kill. Many pet dogs that are cared for and fed regularly still opt for killing squirrels, rabbits, chickens, etc. Just because an animal is denied the opportunity to freely kill does not make it anything but a natural predator. By that definition, no captive tigers are predators, save for those that are fed live prey in zoos overseas. A tiger is still a predatory animal, whether it is fed butchered meat or allowed to kill. Hyenas in captivity, wolves in captive packs. Same scenario.

I have never said that a dog cannot br trained to control those urges. I have done it several times myself. But to try to see this situation in any other light besides training a predator not to kill a prey item would be a major oversight.

 

[cosmo1104]

Great thread Centrarchid. I can hardly wait to read the rest of it.

Dogs are not Predators. Dogs become predators through the failure of their humans.

All dogs are tools and have been used as such for tens of thousands of years.

They are used to alleviate loneliness, provide companionship, used for protection, provide mobility, locating and taking of game, etc etc etc.
Just like any tool, in the wrong hands, bad things can happen. It is a matter of choosing the correct tool for the task you need preformed.

Centrarchid just showed that breed is less of an issue than the proper training.

I wonder how many of the people calling all dogs predators have dog and small children.
Would I let a predator into my house or around my small nieces and nephews? NO WAY NO HOW.

Anyone stating that all dogs are predators; or this breed is dangerous; or lumping anything or anyone into a single group and putting a label on it is misinformed, prejudice and extremely closed minded and completely wrong.

WOW, BRAVO. Well said!!! I have a 95 pound boxer,a 90 pound lab, and a 5 pound chihuahua, and the only threat to my girls is the chihuahua, until he gets pecked for the first time daily. He's not that smart. But, I just trained the other boys that the chickens weren't toys and to leave them alone. And the dogs keep the predators at bay. 7 years of poultry with ZERO losses from any predator, and I thank my dogs mostly for that. But I just read a crow thread about attracting them, and think I'll give it a shot, I've had a few Koi get picked off lately. and as a bonus they'll warn my chickens

 

[cosmo1104]

Ohh, and BTW, all my dogs came from VERY abusive backgrounds, yet, with love and basic training, I trust them 98% with anything. Because let's face it, I wouldn't trust any animal 100% of the time, including humans. I really feel most animals can be trained if you research and learn how to, to be a "safe" pet. Just learn if they are and what you need to watch out for, then train and adjust their lifestyles to that. But, I'll tell ya this, I can leave my dogs out all day with my chickens. But if I leave my dogs inside for too long, I have raccoons raiding food and I'm sure someday the chickens;(

 

[sandspoultry]

Of course you can train most dogs not to go after your birds if you have the skills, time and patience to do it but there is one down side. Your birds will loose their fear of dogs and when a stray or feral dog comes around your birds will be easy pickings.

 

[warmheart]

My experience has been that genetics play a significant part here. Training is invaluable, but very high level prey drive is not an extinguishable drive. One can build drive, bring it out, or keep from eliciting it. One can also teach an alternate behavior-- provided that the prey drive is not very high.

Here's Grimm, Czech Border Patrol lines, both sides. For the work, these dogs were bred to be extremely hard, intense, extreme, drivey, and have that combustible combination of hair-trigger excitability coupled with low frustration threshold. However, Grimm has low - medium prey drive for his type.

How did we teach Grimm to be comfortable with our free-ranging chickens? Two methods: Body Blocks (a method dogs naturally use regarding desired resources, imposing your body between the dog and what he's interested in, and projecting your energy forcefully towards the dog to say "Keep off-- This is Mine.") made known by behaviorist Patricia McConnell, and 2 small taps with an e-collar. I am neither in favor of e-collars nor against them. They are only a tool-- and the DOG determines which tools and methods he requires, not us and our ideals.

Grimm can now be free, offlead, in the yard with the chickens free-ranging. There is no chasing. Okay, all isn't perfect-- Grimm still tries to steal the chickens' snacks! Here, he's jonesing for their mixed salad greens!

So yes, train, using the methods and tools and techniques that your dog responds best to. Remember the value of soothing, calming praise over exciting praise. Be consistant, and keep at it. But, be realistic as well, in that if the dog has high prey drive, and the chasing and killing part of the hunting sequence is strongly influencing your dog around critters that move, the dog may be unable to be reliable.

Here's wishing you every success!

 

[pysankigirl]

My experience has been that genetics play a significant part here. Training is invaluable, but very high level prey drive is not an extinguishable drive. One can build drive, bring it out, or keep from eliciting it. One can also teach an alternate behavior-- provided that the prey drive is not very high.

Agreed...genetics are very important. I’ve had dogs for my whole life and dogs are not wolves. They have been bred for a very long time apart from their wild brethren. Some breeds are closer than others to their wild state and therefore have more of the prey instincts than others. We have giant breeds as pets and believe me they would never be able to survive in the wild. Their natural state is sleeping. And I trust them implicitly with our chickens. I regularly see chickens sitting on top of our oldest when it is cold out, taking advantage of his body heat.

That said, we have goats, too and lost one to a coyote last year. And knowing that our other boys are just too lazy to protect them, we have just gotten a 9 month old Karakachan female who will be our livestock guardian dog. You can see in her eyes that she has a much closer tie-in to a wild dog and I am hoping there will be no deaths in the training of her. But LGDs must stay with their charges full time and we free range our chickens. We can’t be around them 24/7 so one of the methods we are employing is an electric net fence safe zone that the chickens can get through but she cannot. So far so good. That’s all I can say.

In the long run, if we can have a LGD that can also protect the chickens, I think it is very worth it.

 

[centrarchid]

Of course you can train most dogs not to go after your birds if you have the skills, time and patience to do it but there is one down side. Your birds will loose their fear of dogs and when a stray or feral dog comes around your birds will be easy pickings.

Chickens are like us, dogs and even fish, they can distinguish individuals as well as intent. What they may be lacking is appropriate response when bad dog visits. With many of us having dogs free-ranging with chickens, our dogs greatly reduce the threat posed by bad dogs usually by running them off.