Vet says gapeworm, recommends unavailable treatment; options?

[casportpony]

@timebider , you might also want to read this:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...rgency-and-supportive-care-updated-10-30-2016

It would be best to bring your sick bird inside and keep her in a warm room.

-Kathy

 

[timebider]

Thank you so, so much, both of you! That is all incredibly helpful information.

I thought about bringing her in (she and my other eight pullets are currently in the insulated garage, which is around 40F) but someone told me coming from cold to heat might shock her too much, and that she'll also get beaten up when I return her to the flock—which did happen a little after just a couple hours away at the vet. What do you think about bringing her plus a friend inside, in separate but side-by-side wire dog crates? Would she be less stressed that way? They're all tucked in for the night; is it too late to get her inside?

The Panacur dose is .03 mL based on her weight of about 3 pounds. There was just a little spot on her feathers next to her mouth after I gave it to her but it's such a teensy amount anyway, that could have been all of it. Thanks so much for sharing the information and advice! <3

 

[mg15]

also send this:
Efficacy of fenbendazole against helminth parasites of poultry in Uganda.

Ssenyonga GS.
Abstract

Fenbendazole 4% (Panacur, Hoechst) administered in feed was used to treat chickens infected with Ascaridia galli, Heterakis gallinarum and Railletina spp. It was also used to treat Syngamus trachea in broiler birds. There was a marked drop in helminth egg counts in the faeces on the second day of treatment and the faeces became negative by the seventh day after the last treatment. Post-mortem examination 15 to 21 days later showed that the drug was 100% effective against Ascaridia galli and Heterakis gallinarum at 10 mg/kg. However, for complete removal of Railletina spp. 15 mg/kg was required. Similarly 20 mg/kg fenbendazole was effective against Syngamus trachea. It was concluded that fenbendazole is suitable for the treatment of the important intestinal and tracheal worms of poultry, a dose of 15 to 20 mg/kg for 3 consecutive days being recommended for use under field conditions.

This is very good info.
I also have used the SafeGuard product for the worms at 10% fenbendazole

 

[casportpony]

Thank you so, so much, both of you! That is all incredibly helpful information.

I thought about bringing her in (she and my other eight pullets are currently in the insulated garage, which is around 40F) but someone told me coming from cold to heat might shock her too much, and that she'll also get beaten up when I return her to the flock—which did happen a little after just a couple hours away at the vet. What do you think about bringing her plus a friend inside, in separate but side-by-side wire dog crates? Would she be less stressed that way? They're all tucked in for the night; is it too late to get her inside?

The Panacur dose is .03 mL based on her weight of about 3 pounds. There was just a little spot on her feathers next to her mouth after I gave it to her but it's such a teensy amount anyway, that could have been all of it. Thanks so much for sharing the information and advice! <3

I would bring her inside for sure, and if you think a friend would keep her happy, bring a friend.

The amount of Panacur the vet is having you give is highly unlikely to treat gapeworms. I gave you two sources... one says 30 mg/kg for 5 days, the other says 20 mg/kg for 3 days.

The 20 mg/kg dose for a 3 pound bird is:
3 / 2.2 x 20 / 100 = 0.27 ml

The 30 mg/kg dose for a 3 pound bird is:
3 / 2.2 x 30 / 100 = 0.41 ml

The dose your vet is having you give her looks way off to me, it's only 2.2 mg/kg, which will not treat gapeworms.

Here is what my friend's vet has him give (keep in mind that Safeguard = Panacur)


-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

And no, it's not too late to bring her in.

-Kathy

 

[timebider]

Thank you, again. I appreciate your taking the time to share so many resources and such great advice more than I can say.

The dose the vet wrote is 2 mg/kg, which is largely meaningless to me. She added a note that if I wanted to treat the other birds, the dose is .009 ml per pound. I did bring my sick girl in (along with a friend, I won't lie) and they're in a large wire dog crate in the laundry room. They have water with ACV, which she drank a bit of, and I gave some plain yogurt and an egg scrambled with coconut oil, which they both ate quite a lot of. I wish I'd thought to mix in some feed but it was too late when that occurred to me. But she seems to perk up after eating, so I'll sleep better tonight knowing she had food and she's warm. Maybe I had better start over with the Panacur tomorrow since the dose is wrong and I probably gave her only a fraction of the .03 prescribed. (Could the vet have given me the dosage for Safeguard Aquasol instead of Panacur?) ...which leads me to suspect there won't be enough in the bottle for a full course at the correct dosage. I may call the vet who sees my parrot (and treats chickens only as a last resort) for a second opinion/more medicine. Thanks so much, all. I feel like I can finally breathe.

 

[pennyJo1960]

Thank you, again. I appreciate your taking the time to share so many resources and such great advice more than I can say.

The dose the vet wrote is 2 mg/kg, which is largely meaningless to me. She added a note that if I wanted to treat the other birds, the dose is .009 ml per pound. I did bring my sick girl in (along with a friend, I won't lie) and they're in a large wire dog crate in the laundry room. They have water with ACV, which she drank a bit of, and I gave some plain yogurt and an egg scrambled with coconut oil, which they both ate quite a lot of. I wish I'd thought to mix in some feed but it was too late when that occurred to me. But she seems to perk up after eating, so I'll sleep better tonight knowing she had food and she's warm. Maybe I had better start over with the Panacur tomorrow since the dose is wrong and I probably gave her only a fraction of the .03 prescribed. (Could the vet have given me the dosage for Safeguard Aquasol instead of Panacur?) ...which leads me to suspect there won't be enough in the bottle for a full course at the correct dosage. I may call the vet who sees my parrot (and treats chickens only as a last resort) for a second opinion/more medicine. Thanks so much, all. I feel like I can finally breathe.

well please do not leave us for good like Kathy and myself we love to be able to help and Welcome one and all
actually bringing her buddy is good they are social creatures

 

[casportpony]

I'm not very good at explaining the mg/kg stuff, but I will try. You bird weighs 3 pounds, which is 1.36 kg (1360 grams). Your vet wrote 2 mg/kg. The liquid Panacur she gave contains 100 mg fenbendazole per one ml. The syringe she gave you is probably a 1 ml syringe with one hundred marks. With this medication, each mark will equal 1 mg.

Your bird weighs 1.36 kg
Vet says to dose 2 mg/kg
Liquid is 100 mg/ml

1.36 x 2 / 100 = 0.027 ml, round up to 0.03 ml

I am really confused about this amount and I am pretty sure it will not treat gapeworms.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Can you post a video of her? And a picture of her poop?

-Kathy

 

[timebider]

Can you post a video of her? And a picture of her poop?

-Kathy

Trying to figure out how to add a video now—having trouble making it work.

Poop: hard to tell. I thought the fluff around her vent area looked like maybe she'd had a messy poop at some point but the vet didn't think so, and she did have two normal-looking poops at the vet's office. In the cage this morning there is one normal-looking poop and one that is a lighter color brown than usual, but I can't say for sure if there's anything unusual about it because it was in the bowl that had yogurt and had been thoroughly walked in and chopped up. She's still breathing open-mouthed most of the time; last night before I brought her and her friend in, she was on the roost with her beak closed, but breathing so heavily I could see her whole body moving.