Water management and Strategies for water conservation

[perchie.girl]

I think one of the concern these days is here in the us is Filtraton for any particulates.

In My Honest Opinion. The more "stuff" we consume the healthier we are. For instance my stock tank um er fire water tank draws the water from about eighteen inches from the bottom. Because my well goes dry during regular pumping often times that draws sand up through and delivers it to the house. My water tank has a cap.... But I know for certain this is to allow air in and out for varying water levels. Bugs can certainly climb up and in and drop intot the water below. Am I concerned? NO. The water that comes from that tank tastes sweeter than the water delivered directly to the house. From the same pipes.

The difference I believe (without any research) The water has a bit of time in the big tank to "OUTGASS" the sulpher oder delivered by the pipes. I read about well management and found that the pipes for wells can be lined with bacteria who eat Hydrogen Sulphide... And excrete a Rotten egg odor.

OK here is an article on this.

http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/ndwc/articles/QandA/OTsp00_Q_A.pdf

What your mom did with the bleach was spot on. NEar the end of this article talks about how much bleach to add to your well and how its important to run it through your pipes.

What I read on earlier reading was to pour the bleach down your well pipe... In my case the pipe is 450 feet deep my water column is approximatley 90 feet of that. Thats how full the well gets when its not used. The whole gallon of un scented bleach goes in the well. Then you run the well at the source spigot till you smell bleach. then turn that off .... In my case 1000 feet of water line to the house.... So then go to the lowest water spigot then run that one till I smell bleach. Then the next and the next till I get to the water heater and run that one. Once All the water sources in the house smell of bleach.... turn it all off and dont run it again for 24 hours.

Then working back wards run each faucet till you dont smell bleach again. I cant do it from the lowest point because there are check valves in that 1000 foot pipe line. I also cant do it from any of the hose bibs because they are plumbed to the water tank.

But in the long run the odor is only a nuisance If it were to develope to poisonous levels the water would be entirely undrinkable.

deb

 

[Triple Willow]

Here's something about oxygen in small "yard" ponds but I suppose it works the same for big farm ponds... (I also read that rainwater is low in oxygen ...so HOT weather plus a heavy rain leads to a big fish die off a lot of times.)

"Oxygen and Aeration in Ponds:

Perhaps the most overlooked part of a fish pond is aeration. Most fountains and waterfalls provide aeration, and often, that is enough. But, if the pond is overstocked, small, shallow, or it is really hot outside, the oxygen levels may go low enough to cause problems. If the oxygen is just a little low, the fish will gasp under the waterfall or any other moving water. Once the oxygen levels get too low, the fish die. Sometimes only one fish will die. Sometimes, the entire pond dies off. For this reason, I suggest that most any fish pond over 200 gallons have a separate air stone with air pump in addition to the usual filter and water movement. In order of tolerance (most to least) of low oxygen are mosquito fish, rosy red minnows, goldfish, koi, and orfe. That means that orfe need more oxygen than say goldfish. Also, larger fish need more oxygen so they may be the first to die in low oxygen levels. You can buy an oxygen test kit to measure oxygen levels. At any given temperature, water can only hold so much oxygen. The warmer the water is, the less oxygen it can hold. So, if a pond has a lot of fish, and the water is 90 degrees F, even with aeration, the oxygen may drop low enough to harm fish. On hot days, added shade (plants or suspended tarps) and/or partial water changes (with added dechlorinator for those with city water) may help lower the temperature and increase oxygen levels. Many people have told me that they run their waterfall, fountain, etc. during the day and turn it off at night. They want to know why their fish died. Animals always use oxygen and output carbon dioxide. Plants take up carbon dioxide and release oxygen during the day but, at night, the process is reversed. That means, at night, plants use up oxygen and give up carbon dioxide. In a hot pond with a lot of animals and/or a lot of plants under the water, the oxygen can plummet to dangerous levels at night leading to fish gasping in the morning. So, run your pump all day and get an aerator if you do not have one! "

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/fishcare/water.htm

 

[Triple Willow]

Deb... That is a great idea with the bleach.

 

[Triple Willow]

I've heard of that happening when the surrounding fields have been fertilized and the run off gets into the ponds.  It could also be the result of an algae bloom....here's some great info on using barley straw in ponds to prevent that.  Says it should be done now..this month...to prevent algae from taking hold later in the hotter months.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/0012.html

Oh yeah I have seen algae get out of hand before. One time we had a red algae going on so I had the water tested. They SAID they didn't find anything. What scares me with ponds and eating the fish out of them and all ground water is all the "cides" being used on crops and everywhere else.

 

[perchie.girl]

Deb... Thanks for the info on the fish. I have never heard of mosquito fish. A lot of people put minnows in their ponds to help control mosquitos. Goldfish sound good.

Speaking of fish and ponds... we have a problem when it is really hot and it comes a big rain - somehow it does something with the oxygen in the water and there will be a big die-off of fish in the pond. I have seen that several times. People who are trying to raise fish usually aerate their pond somehow to keep that from happening.

Something I'd like to learn about is raising fish in tanks and how to filter that water... but that's another discussion.

I've heard of that happening when the surrounding fields have been fertilized and the run off gets into the ponds. It could also be the result of an algae bloom....here's some great info on using barley straw in ponds to prevent that. Says it should be done now..this month...to prevent algae from taking hold later in the hotter months.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/0012.html

I read this article and Its worth a try.

In my years of fish keeping I have found the two biggest contributors to Algae growth are Sunlight and decaying organic material. The best combat is to exclude light and do a partial water change of the environment. In the process remove as much organic material off the bottom of the tank as possible

That being said the first rainfall run off would contain the most dissolved organic material. Food for the algae.... Decomposition requires oxygen. Once the oxygen is consumed Anaerobic Bacteria take up the job of "Digesting" organic material. While that all is going on the oxygen is gone and kills off some of the fish. Gold fish can breathe air by gulping at the surface... But Not enough to survive well.

They way I filtered the big tanks.... My 110 gallon show tank for instance is the same way to filter Grey water.... this is how all this is applicable to Water management. The way I filter water is to put a grid of pvc spaced as closely as possible on the bottom of the container. All the grid is perforated with holes.... Then a pound of gravel per gallon of water is put in the tank covering the PVC. IN this case if you were useing a 110 gallon container you would use 110 pounds of gravel. In aquariums that usually winds up to be about two to three inches deep. If you were using a taller skinnier container like say a 55 gallon drum that would be 55 pounds and most likely 5 or six inches deep. (havent calculated this yet)

The grid will have one or two vertical pipes that come to the surface of the aquarium. You run air line down those pipes to the bottom of the grid. and pump air down there. The water rises driven on air bubbles and comes out the top of the air pipe. Effectively drawing the water down through the rocks and the grid below. Aerobic bacteria take up residence in those rocks and consume organic material. Then the water is recirculated back into the aquarium.... In this case a bed of charcoal is the final destination for the water to pass over. This supposedly removes ammonia and nitrates. I never used them. opting for a once a month water change of about 25 percent of the aquarium.

In the case of a Greywater system I still havent researched them enough persey. But I know with the addition of mechanical filteration for "Big" chunks... Like stuff run out of the sink. and to provide a calm place for oils to rise. Then with back up from the Under gravel filtration. Big rocks in the first tank.... Smaller rocks in the second and finally charcoal in the third That water should be clean enough to use in the hyacinth pond. i would put each gravel substrate in a mesh bag of sorts so it could be brought out and rinsed easily.

Random thought
For what its worth putting in a water pump in the pond that sprays the water up in a decorative spray will go very far to increasing the oxygen levels and decreasing the carbon dioxide levels.

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

Here's something about oxygen in small "yard" ponds but I suppose it works the same for big farm ponds... (I also read that rainwater is low in oxygen ...so HOT weather plus a heavy rain leads to a big fish die off a lot of times.)

"Oxygen and Aeration in Ponds:

Perhaps the most overlooked part of a fish pond is aeration. Most fountains and waterfalls provide aeration, and often, that is enough. But, if the pond is overstocked, small, shallow, or it is really hot outside, the oxygen levels may go low enough to cause problems. If the oxygen is just a little low, the fish will gasp under the waterfall or any other moving water. Once the oxygen levels get too low, the fish die. Sometimes only one fish will die. Sometimes, the entire pond dies off. For this reason, I suggest that most any fish pond over 200 gallons have a separate air stone with air pump in addition to the usual filter and water movement. In order of tolerance (most to least) of low oxygen are mosquito fish, rosy red minnows, goldfish, koi, and orfe. That means that orfe need more oxygen than say goldfish. Also, larger fish need more oxygen so they may be the first to die in low oxygen levels. You can buy an oxygen test kit to measure oxygen levels. At any given temperature, water can only hold so much oxygen. The warmer the water is, the less oxygen it can hold. So, if a pond has a lot of fish, and the water is 90 degrees F, even with aeration, the oxygen may drop low enough to harm fish. On hot days, added shade (plants or suspended tarps) and/or partial water changes (with added dechlorinator for those with city water) may help lower the temperature and increase oxygen levels. Many people have told me that they run their waterfall, fountain, etc. during the day and turn it off at night. They want to know why their fish died. Animals always use oxygen and output carbon dioxide. Plants take up carbon dioxide and release oxygen during the day but, at night, the process is reversed. That means, at night, plants use up oxygen and give up carbon dioxide. In a hot pond with a lot of animals and/or a lot of plants under the water, the oxygen can plummet to dangerous levels at night leading to fish gasping in the morning. So, run your pump all day and get an aerator if you do not have one! "

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/fishcare/water.htm

LOL.... I just wrote about aeration..... two minds. You can tie in the water fall to a mechanical filtration device in the bottom of the pond... Usually a box with a sponge inside. Mechanical filtration and oxygenation at the same time... BTW I worked with an Ichtheologist when i worked in the aquarium store. back in the 70s and he told me the hardest part about the whole aquarium keeping thing was getting the Carbon Dioxide out. Thats why aeriation will go very far to keeping your fish healthy. The rule of thumb back then was an inch of fish per gallon. Good aeriation makes that quite a bit different. Water surface area comes into play as well.

deb

 

[sarahsunshine]

Here is my Land..... at its lowest point this happens to be the easement that goes through my property.... the whitest roads... my house is up toward the top. To the bottom is my neighbors house The road that spans across the picture. The actual road IS the stream-bed. Very nice in the winter when the water flows through.... makes the road completely flat. Oh and I have about three or four acres across the road adjoining my neighbors.




The only water run off I have are the roads from my house to the main easement,,, For what its worth almost level with this stream bed Is my well approximately where this photo takds a bit of a jog right where its labled Tearose. That well pumps water from there all the way upto the house in two inch diameter pipe,

And when you are standing or driving along the main road through here This is what you see....


The Road is well traveled Decomposed granite.... The road ahead to the right of the mailbox is actually the start to my driveway. the road to the left of the windmill structure is the start of my neighbors drive way.... And Believe it or not there is a road in the middle wide enough to take a semi truck down. All the large growth is Ribbon wood They grow large like this where there is water close to the surface. The stream bed here funnels down to a creek that is well below and not on my property. that creek is lined with Boulders ranging from football size to the size of a Volkswagen.

deb

Dare I suggest that perhaps there may be quite a bit of water flow coming off your roof? Calculate the surface area and multiply by the depth of water you get per year (3-11 inches?) You will find that is a LOT MORE than you probably thought! I was surprised when I did the calculation for my home here. If you harvested that water in tanks, and figured out which direction it went, you could slow the runoff going downhill to the road. It won't take much! Here is an even better summary of Lancaster's work in Tucson where he explains what they did over the last 20 years there:http://www.american-oasis.com/chapters/0

I've tried the goldfish (feeder fish at the local pet store - 10c each). They froze in the winter and our barrels turned black... a bitof bleach should fix that I hope, and a good scrub.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote: Oh yep I calculated... 0.623 is gallons per square foot at 1 inch deep

Therefore you take the square footage of your roof say 2000 square feet and multiply that by 0.623 and you get 1246 I am going to add in that I believe I have 3000 square feet that would equal 1869 Gallons of water per one inch rain fall Round up to be 2000 gallons

For my roof
Three inches of rain would be 6000 gallons
10 inches of rain would give me 20000 gallons

It takes me 10 days to fill my water tank to 3000 gallons.

Consumption wise right now I am figuring on my horse using 100 gallons of water every three days equals 1000 gallons a month. The poultry considerably less. Each pen had a tub of 5 gallons three tubs 15 gallons and they would go through that in three days 150 gallons per month
Four goatss... Maybe 40 gallons every three days 400 gallons for the month
I use three or four flushes per day 7 gallons
I do ONE load of laundry per week

Per month:
1.5 Horses = 1000 gal
60 Chickens = 150 gal
3 goats = 400 gallons
1 human = 2400
I drink I flush I wash... full loads only I dont water anything but my animals. so My consumption for water is lower than most. Once I get my sawdust toilet knock off 60 x3 x10 1800 gallons for me.
So that would bring my personal water usage to 600 gallons per month.

Here is a calculator for water usage
http://www.glendalewaterandpower.com/save_money/water_calculator.aspx

So The amount of water I could potentially use is
47400 per year with a low flow toilet
29400 per year with a sawdust toilet


So providing I use catchment water to supplement what i can get out of the ground

I would only have to pump 27400 gallons per year with toilet VS 9400 gallons per year with sawdust.

I have to completely restructure my roof to do this.... Replacing wood rot facia and provide gutters....

It will happen eventually. Once I get a steady income going.

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

I've tried the goldfish (feeder fish at the local pet store - 10c each). They froze in the winter and our barrels turned black... a bitof bleach should fix that I hope, and a good scrub.

Sorry I missed that.... The deal is the water has to be reasonlably deep... Deeper than a complet freeze over will touch. ANd You have about 150 days before the fish suffocate. A solution is to bring the fish into the house in a bucket or water tub and feed them during the winter.

That being said might be cheaper and easer to buy new fish every year. The water will NOT appear clean. The tubs will have algae on them as well as the water will have a greenish tint to it. Believe it or not you can drink it. in a pinch.... I have. The gold fish are in there to consume insect larva.... Mosquitos water bugs little almost microscopic swimmers. All stuff that "appear" out of the blue that grows in ponds. They also graze on the Algae they dont get rid of it they just keep it down to a "mowed lawn"

If I have to clean a tub I personally would only scrub with rocksalt and not worry about any little bits of Algae are left behind. They will grow back no matter what. even with bleach.

deb

 

[Triple Willow]

What about putting in some of those fish that clean the sides and bottom?