What are the odds? (questions about markes and disease control)

[clickchicks]

Over the weekend I found out that about half a dozen other people who purchased birds from the same farm I did, within the same timeframe that I did, had birds pass away due to what they all suspect to be mareks. About a dozen birds died. The birds were all assumed to be vaccinated, but the farm in question buys from hatcheries so there's of course room for error.

One of mine passed about a month ago. The symptoms weren't super specific (enlarged liver, lack of appetite, lethargy) and the vet said it could be multiple things, including mareks. We sent the bird to A&M's vet diagnostic lab, and they reported the cause of death was most likely a severe bacterial infection.

My other birds, all from the same farm, seem to be healthy and I haven't had any other issues. It sounds like one other person has sent a bird off for necropsy, but hasn't got the results back yet.

I have to assume A&M is extremely experienced in figuring this stuff out. But its really strange that so many birds, from the same place and all purchased within the same month, passed away with similar symptoms. I get that anything is possible, but could a dedicated diagnostic lab that deals with poultry ever single day really have missed something like mareks in a necropsy?

All my current birds are acting totally normal and I'm not so much worried about them, but I'm not sure what this means for any future birds I may want to get. If mareks is in the flock, and the other birds are OK (possibly due to the vaccine), that means they are still shedding it. Is it ever really safe to bring new birds in?

 

[clickchicks]

Also if anyone is super savvy at reading vet pathology reports, I did get a copy. I'm googling everything here to try and get a better understanding of what everything means, but I assume they didn't tell me any of this looks like mareks because it either doesn't else its too nonspecific.

From my layman's reading it seems like something specifically was effecting her gut and her heart/artieries.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Maybe there was a genetic compound to it. Were they all the same breed?

 

[clickchicks]

Maybe there was a genetic compound to it. Were they all the same breed?

Doesn't sound like it, so far at least 4-5 different breeds have died, but I don't think anyone knows if they all came from the same hatchery originally (the theory is that maybe the hatchery improperly vaccinated the birds before sending them to the farm).

I know for my bird that passed, I did get two of the same breed- Australorps, who were the same age so I assume they were from the same place. The one that's still alive seems totally normal/healthy.

 

[Trisseh]

Your bird died from an overwhelming infectious process that basically compromised multiple organ systems. What exactly it was, they can’t tell you without further testing. (Usually cultures to see what bugs are causing it) “concomitant multiorgan polymicrobial disease” essentially means lots of organs affected at the same time by multiple pathogens. An example is a calf that doesn’t get adequate colostrum and winds up with multisystem infections like scours, navel infection, and pneumonia all at the same time.
if there had been evidence of mareks that would have been reported under “nervous system” most likely as theres usually peripheral nerve enlargement. Or tumours elsewhere in the body is another common finding.

it would definitely be interesting to see what other bird(s) come back with from the lab... without the additional testing hard to say what the best course of action is for you. Depends on what bugs you’re dealing with, if it’s worth it to treat prophylactically with antibiotics...

 

[clickchicks]

Your bird died from an overwhelming infectious process that basically compromised multiple organ systems. What exactly it was, they can’t tell you without further testing. (Usually cultures to see what bugs are causing it) “concomitant multiorgan polymicrobial disease” essentially means lots of organs affected at the same time by multiple pathogens. An example is a calf that doesn’t get adequate colostrum and winds up with multisystem infections like scours, navel infection, and pneumonia all at the same time.
if there had been evidence of mareks that would have been reported under “nervous system” most likely as theres usually peripheral nerve enlargement. Or tumours elsewhere in the body is another common finding.

it would definitely be interesting to see what other bird(s) come back with from the lab... without the additional testing hard to say what the best course of action is for you. Depends on what bugs you’re dealing with, if it’s worth it to treat prophylactically with antibiotics...

Extremely helpful, thank you so much.

This is actually the first time I'm seeing the full report. When the vet called to give me the rundown they didn't mention additional testing, else I'm sure I would have done it. Frustrating miss on my part, but I should have asked for a copy and didn't.

 

[clickchicks]

The source of the multiple bacteria is hard to tell . Rodents sneaking into fresh grain and depositing feces . Wild pigeons droppings in feed can also cause problems . Contaminated pond water can be a source of infection or all of the above . They always get you on this because all bacteria has to be cultured to find out its species and that costs money and time. Broad spectrum anti biotics are a choice if any more get sick.

I have some antibiotics on hand just in case, thankfully no one else has shown any signs of being sick since this happened.

Contaminated food was something I considered. These were my first chickens so I bought a bag of feed from the farm when I picked them up. I suspect other people did too since it sounds like most of the others were also first time owners. It was an unopened bag, but looked like it was stored in a shed in their barn.

The food was a crumble with bits of individual ingredients like chunks of corn. I noticed early on that the birds were picking out the bits that they liked and leaving the rest, so I decided to switch. I was still mixing their new food with the old when my hen that died first started acting sick. She wasn't really eating much at this point but I figured the new food might not be agreeing, so I switched her back to just the original food.

I could audibly hear her gut churning the entire time she was in quarantine... it sounded like terrible indigestion and she had bad poops the whole time. After she died I did an audit of everything I suspected might be the culprit and ended up completely pulling the original food and switching everyone to the new one just in case.

It was probably a coincidence but the thought has weighed on me. I still have the old bag with a little bit of the old food in it. I wish there was a way to have it tested.

 

[Parront]

From reading the report, it sounds like your hen has been sick a while, a 4-month-old ought to weigh more than 1.54 pounds. That is about what a healthy 2 month old might weigh. Maybe weigh your others, look very closely at the nostrils for brown or yellow fluid, which this bird had. Feel the breastbone, does it feel very prominent, does it feel sharp & pointy? A too thin bird feels narrow and sharp in the breast. A sick bird will not show it by acting sick until it is too late.

 

[clickchicks]

From reading the report, it sounds like your hen has been sick a while, a 4-month-old ought to weigh more than 1.54 pounds. That is about what a healthy 2 month old might weigh. Maybe weigh your others, look very closely at the nostrils for brown or yellow fluid, which this bird had. Feel the breastbone, does it feel very prominent, does it feel sharp & pointy? A too thin bird feels narrow and sharp in the breast. A sick bird will not show it by acting sick until it is too late.

This is another thing I'm just not good at judging. I don't know what's normal or not.

I did weigh them all this weekend... when I found out other people were having issues I figured it was a good thing to do just in case so I could keep track.

The 3 remaining birds are all about 5 months old now.
I have an Australorp who weighed in about 3 1/2 lbs, a Barred Rock who was at just over 3 lbs and my smallest "Sapphire Gem" who is a little over a 2 1/4 lbs.

The Sapphire Gem seems small to me, I can feel the keel but she still has meat on her breast. I actually took this specific bird to the vet not long before my other bird died. She'd broken her beak— the vet noted at the time that she was lean but didn't feel she was an unhealthy weight, and the beak healed fine and she's eating normally.

Internet searches say Sapphire Gems are only about 4 lbs fully grown, so maybe this is normal?

EDIT:
I know you can't tell weight from looking at a picture, but this is what they look like next to eachother:

The Sapphire Gem is wiry compared to the other two. But she's very active and has a big appetite. She caught and ate a snake in the yard yesterday

 

[Parront]

Eating a snake sounds like a healthy appetite.
They look like getting ready to lay. That is a good sign, sick girls have a pale face and don't lay. I have not had that breed, but I have some White Rocks 10 weeks old that are about 3 pounds. Rocks are usually bigger than other breeds. (That is what I like about them). Give them electrolytes for the heat and general purposes once a week. All you can do is keep an eye on them. And handle them so you get a feel for what is normal for them. Weight loss is not good at this age.