What makes a coop "Fort Knox" predator proof?

[K0k0shka]

I haven't built my coop and run yet, but I want to share a story from a neighbor that I found very surprising and now I don't know what to do with the information. It may or may not be useful here. I inherited a whole bunch of welded wire fencing panels from a neighbor who no longer keeps chickens. She bragged about how she built a Fort Knox with these panels, and in the 16 years she kept chickens, she never had any predator issues, even though she lives on the edge of the woods and would leave the coop's pop door open year round, day and night. I was seriously impressed by this, and was happy to take all her fencing panels (secure! and free! the best combination!). That was before I started reading through BYC and learned that the openings have to be quite small for the run/coop to be considered "safe"... I went back to my new panels and measured them. Their holes are... 2x2 inches...

So, I guess this could be good news or bad news. Good news that you can still have a "Fort Knox" even without killing yourself with a 1/4" mesh that's more expensive... Or bad news that now I have totally inadequate fencing and will need to spend $$$ anyway. We're in MA and theoretically we do have fisher cats in the state, and they can probably fit through a 2" opening... And now I don't know what to do. Maybe the lesson here is that predator presence varies GREATLY not just from state to state, but within the same state, between counties, towns, who knows... maybe she doesn't have fisher cats on her street, but we do on ours... and there's no way to know until you know.

 

[Mimi13]

I haven't built my coop and run yet, but I want to share a story from a neighbor that I found very surprising and now I don't know what to do with the information. It may or may not be useful here. I inherited a whole bunch of welded wire fencing panels from a neighbor who no longer keeps chickens. She bragged about how she built a Fort Knox with these panels, and in the 16 years she kept chickens, she never had any predator issues, even though she lives on the edge of the woods and would leave the coop's pop door open year round, day and night. I was seriously impressed by this, and was happy to take all her fencing panels (secure! and free! the best combination!). That was before I started reading through BYC and learned that the openings have to be quite small for the run/coop to be considered "safe"... I went back to my new panels and measured them. Their holes are... 2x2 inches...

So, I guess this could be good news or bad news. Good news that you can still have a "Fort Knox" even without killing yourself with a 1/4" mesh that's more expensive... Or bad news that now I have totally inadequate fencing and will need to spend $$$ anyway. We're in MA and theoretically we do have fisher cats in the state, and they can probably fit through a 2" opening... And now I don't know what to do. Maybe the lesson here is that predator presence varies GREATLY not just from state to state, but within the same state, between counties, towns, who knows... maybe she doesn't have fisher cats on her street, but we do on ours... and there's no way to know until you know.

I’m going to say this lady was either very lucky or completely delirious. There is no way, and I mean absolutely NO WAY, a 2”x2” opening is going to keep predators out and/or chickens safe.

Yes, hardware cloth is more expensive than some other options and is also difficult to work with, BUT you want your chickens safe and you get what you pay for. Go ahead and purchase the HC, along with screws and washers, and make your coop/run predator proof and secure. Also, do not forget to include about a 12” “apron” of HC buried along the perimeter of the run. This will stop the predators that will think about digging under the fence to wreak havoc.

You definitely don’t want to be in the “I wish I would’ve!” or “Why didn’t I?” Clubs after something has happened.

 

[K0k0shka]

Sigh... That's such a bummer. I was SO excited for those free panels, backed by this lady's success story I'll definitely do a wide apron along the ground (she had one, too), and was thinking of putting HC against the panels along maybe the first foot or two up from the ground... but maybe I should cover all of it. If I get 2"x2" hardware cloth and offset it with the panels I have, so the openings are 1"x1", and I fasten everything really well, will that be enough? 2x2 is less expensive than 1x1 or smaller...

 

[Mimi13]

If I get 2"x2" hardware cloth and offset it with the panels I have, so the openings are 1"x1", and I fasten everything really well, will that be enough? 2x2 is less expensive than 1x1 or smaller...

I am going to say if the size of chicken wire holes are not adequate, neither would this be.

However, I will say on my first run, which was a repurposed dog kennel, I secured HC on the bottom 2’ and chicken wire on the remaining 4’. I considered this acceptable at the time because my birds were secured in a coop at night. When I built my new coop and run I used HC exclusively.

 

[K0k0shka]

I am going to say if the size of chicken wire holes are not adequate, neither would this be.

Wait, wasn't the recommended HC size 1 inch?? I thought the issue with chicken wire was that animals can chew through it, not so much the hole size...

 

[Mimi13]

Well, no, I believe the recommendation is 1/4” or 1/2” HC.

Yes, chicken wire is much flimsier than HC, but the size of the hole is still too large. Say if your birds are roosting next to the fence made of chicken wire, a raccoon can reach through a 1” hole and pull the chicken out (piece by piece.) Go with the smaller holes if at all possible.

Just an FYI: instead of purchasing HC at Home Depot or other like stores (I have BTW), look for locally owned building supply stores. Whereas the big box stores generally sell a smaller sized roll of HC, you might be able to find the HC much cheaper at the local shops. I purchase a 4’ x 100’ roll of HC for $142 from a local store, which is a much better deal than the other stores have.

 

[Mimi13]

I thought the issue with chicken wire was that animals can chew through it, not so much the hole size...

And, in all honesty, a determined animal (dog in my case) can chew through just about anything. My Catahoula has chewed through HC and also the 2”x4” welded wire AND completely obliterated the chain link of a dog kennel. Luckily he was not trying to get my chickens, but rather trying to free himself after catching the whiff of a dang dog in heat. He is as good as gold with my chickens.

 

[K0k0shka]

Damn, 1/4"? There are so many pictures of chicken runs on BYC with HC holes bigger than that... Including in "Articles" and the coop pages... And even if let's say predators vary by location, pretty much everybody has raccoons... Are people just lucky?

Dogs, at least, aren't a problem in my area. I'm in the city and there are no loose or unattended dogs allowed here (and I don't have a dog myself to think about). Seeing an unattended dog roaming the neighborhood or even left in somebody's yard without the owner present is really rare, and animal control or the police get alerted right away. And, no bears. So at least I don't have to worry about large things chewing through hardware cloth...

So, here's another suggestion. How about I do 1/2" along the bottom foot of the fence all around, and then 2x2 HC offset from the panels' 2x2 holes to make it all 1x1 throughout the rest of the enclosure. And no perches near the fence walls. That way a raccoon can't reach through at chicken level... Would that work?

Thanks for the tip on local stores. I would not have expected that... Big stores usually have lower prices. I will check it out.

 

[Mimi13]

Big stores usually have lower prices

I know, right?

You are gonna see all kinds of fencing resources here on BYC. Heck, some chickens have no fence at all. I believe we each have to do what we are comfortable with. I free range my chickens so I have to be comfortable with the possibility of losing a bird to an aerial predator. I have an LGD, a Catahoula and two property fence lines that protect from any ground attack. Knock on wood!

I think you have found your comfort level. And, if it doesn’t all pan out, you will know next time.

 

[K0k0shka]

The thing is, we're only planning on having like 3 chickens total, so not a lot of room for losses... I'll try 1"x1" holes and if something STILL gets in, I'm running electricity along the fence and setting land mines filled with cayenne pepper around the perimeter