What rooster should I use?

[LaurenRitz]

I have 2 Mottled Java hen chicks, (apparently) 3 Jersey Giant hen chicks, 1 Black Australorp hen chick and a Bielefelder rooster chick.

Because of some medical issues that have developed with the rooster, I'm trying to decide what I should use in his place. I can keep him until the girls are old enough to start going broody, and I'll try to find another home for him, but I can't have those weaknesses in my first generation roo.

My ultimate goal is a large dual purpose breed, dark or mottled, that goes broody (MJ and JJ), with a good feed to meat ratio (BA) and OK with heat (MJ) or cold (JJ and BA). I want them to mature relatively quickly (BA), good foragers, and produce eggs through the winter (JJ and MJ).

That process will take a while. At the moment, I need to decide what roo to use for my first generation. I need dual purpose, dark or mottled, upwards of 9 pounds at maturity (larger is better) and as many other traits as I can pack in to one bird. I will be shifting roosters periodically to avoid inbreeding.

Any suggestions for a rooster that fits at least some of these criteria? Size and color are absolutely necessary, everything else is negotiable.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Look at Asian Blacks. I'll try to get a picture of my male that actually shows his size. He's huge and passes that on to his babies. He's black with red and green patches, but his daughters so far seem to be either black or black with bronzing

 

[Ridgerunner]

It sounds like you know that a rooster contributes the genetics that determine whether or not his daughters tend to go broody a much as the hens do. Not everyone understands that. Good catch.

I don't understand why you would want a good feed to meat ratio if you are going to try to rehome your current one instead of eat him. I don't know where you plan to get your new rooster, but there can be a lot of difference in the quality of roosters from the same flock. Some are going to be much better than others. whether from a hatchery or even from a breeder if you buy chicks. My suggestion if you buy a chick is to get several, either same breed or different breeds, and raise them together. Select your best as your breeder and eat the rest. The more you have to select from the better your chances of getting a good one and you can fill your freezer the first year. If you are getting a mature rooster this does obviously not apply.

Some pullets lay through their first winter, some don't. Unless you manipulate lights hens are going to molt and stop laying the fall after that first winter. Even if you manipulate the lights productivity will be hurt at other times in the season. Some breeds are more likely to resume laying after the molt instead of waiting until the longer warmer days or spring, but do not expect them to lay all year long every year without a break.

I'm not going to recommend a breed because I don't know of any that meets all or most of your requirements.

Good luck.

 

[LaurenRitz]

@Ridgerunner I want to develop a landrace breed that actually thrives in this area.

I have done landrace breeding for plants, and I expect that many of the same processes will apply. The strength and health of the first generation makes a HUGE difference to the strength and health of their descendants.

With plant landraces, it's generally about 3 generations before I start to see the mixture of traits and I can start selecting for the best (or let nature start selecting, as in insect and disease resistance). I expect it will be about the same in this situation.

Size and color/pattern contribute to the ability to avoid predators, which is primary at the moment. Feed to meat ratio is for later generations. The more positive traits I have in the first generation, the more likely that those traits will express themselves in future generations.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Here is the Asian black I was talking about, next to one of my ewes that is laying down. He's constantly moving, so it's hard to grab a clear pic of him. Bit this should help show his size a bit

 

[LaurenRitz]

Yeah, it does. He's certainly a big boy. Any idea how many pounds?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I haven't been able to weigh him, but he definitely has heft when I hold him. Probably around 10-13 lbs. They're fast growers too, I worried he was a meat only bird when he was younger

 

[Ridgerunner]

I want to develop a landrace breed that actually thrives in this area.

That is a fairly common goal, totally understandable. If you could find a barnyard mix that has been in a farmer's family for a few generations they should fit that description. They have been acclimating to the area for decades. Where the problem with them comes in you want to add certain traits such as early maturity, feed to meat ratio, etc. They haven't been bred for that.

I have done landrace breeding for plants, and I expect that many of the same processes will apply. The strength and health of the first generation makes a HUGE difference to the strength and health of their descendants. With plant landraces, it's generally about 3 generations before I start to see the mixture of traits and I can start selecting for the best (or let nature start selecting, as in insect and disease resistance). I expect it will be about the same in this situation.

You might want to check out the sister gardening forum, TEG. Developing landrace is not a strong emphasis but there are people over there doing the same type of thing with plants. You do not have to join to read, just to post.

Size and color/pattern contribute to the ability to avoid predators, which is primary at the moment. Feed to meat ratio is for later generations. The more positive traits I have in the first generation, the more likely that those traits will express themselves in future generations.

I had some interesting chats with a lady that was working with a consortium to develop a new color/pattern for an existing breed of chickens. They introduced the genetics for the color/pattern they wanted but did not work on that at first. As long as the genes were there they could sort that out later. They established certain genetics to work on first, some things that define the breed. She was quite proud of the success they had made on standardizing eye color. The pattern (mottling) was low on their priority list as long as some of them retained those genetics. But since mottling is a recessive trait it would not be that hard to establish mottling in all of them early on.

I don't know which traits you should shoot for first with your goals. The more you use for selection the harder it is to make consistent progress and the more chicks you have to hatch to get good breeding choices. I would think that many of the traits you are looking for are not controlled by one gene pair but by a combination of gene pairs. That also makes it harder to stabilize.

Some of your goals may be contradictory. I think you want a flock that can somewhat evade predators but you also want them to be large. Larger birds generally don't fly as well as smaller birds. That may be why a landrace barnyard mix are usually fairly small birds.

It is a worthy target and I wish you luck.

 

[LaurenRitz]

The size is primarily to evade smaller predators. Cats, racoons, small dogs, etc., probably won't tackle something larger than they are. The colors are also predator evasion/camouflage, which is why each of my selected breeds has those traits. Predator evasion has to come first. No point in breeding a specialized bird that is dinner to everything.

All of these breeds go broody to some extent--BA less than the others, but that was the quick maturity trait. All make good mothers and the roosters are both alert/protective and relatively docile with humans. They are good meat birds as well as decent layers. Those traits were also a necessity.

The things I considered most important are already present in each of the breeds I chose.

 

[Molpet]

Cats, racoons, small dogs, etc., probably won't tackle something larger than they are.

A family of Raccoons took out all 18 turkey poults from under the turkey hens one night a couple years ago.