When is it time to switch to layer feed?

[Lilyput]

I'm at about the same stage with my new girls - getting close to 17 weeks and I've noticed a change - maturity - beginning to develop and they are making more sounds than they use to - what exactly is the "egg song"? I assume they start making some type of throaty grunting cackle - which is what mine are doing. I need to get their next boxes in the coop. I don't want to start finding eggs in all types of add ball places!

I put my hens on fermented finisher feed plus oyster shell in a separate feeder at 16 weeks. I won't give them layer feed until I have eggs from all of them. This morning 2 of my very mature looking hens (20 weeks) started running around clucking like crazy for at least 30 minutes. Another mature looking hen (20 weeks) did the same thing today, but stayed inside; every time the 2 outside clucked hysterically, she clucked back. They then settled down and were their usual quiet selves the rest of the day. I opened the laying boxes also at 16 weeks. They have been peeking and investigating them for the last week or so. Yesterday, I put a fake egg in one of them. I think they're getting close to laying. On of these hens has also been squatting more often. The hens involved are a buff orp, ee, lace Wyandotte. Also note post 120 from Sumi.

 

[laughingdog]

I had a white leghorn hen that started on till bag ran out and feathers were more than halfway in at least i think, on co op chick feed. Then was gotten by fam, as was just feeding her people pet of kinds n different things, dumo chick starter, n they suddenly got horrible greasy split feathers n cocci poops etc until free ranged and they stopped eating mainly. hen then starting to lay at four months old, giving me two to three eggs a day (he's scoff if want, as had to look up too that was possible from commercial factory stock, also known only chook to occurrences of parthenogenesis, among other odd occurrences), one super jumbo or whatever one twice or so bigger than fits in jumo carton, or a jumbo and a small, or three varying sizes usually lay two in morn n one at night or vice versa, and had on the chic feed till was gotten wrong bag and was feeding cheapest scratch grain had, recommended by store.. she free ranged around big fenced yard, and ate out of compost pile getting leftovers n kitchen scraps. never problem woth calcium except really hard to open egg shells membranes andthick whites n rich big almost red yolks. she couldn't take the cold at all though.

had OEGBs n American game breeds mainly, and dutch bantams etc bantams, on mainly crushed ol roy red cheapest bag, as no name brown bag feeds at farm market could hoof to only at time just was seemingly way to rich. all games gave me a med egg a day, in big dog pen area they left at times.

i now have Americana bantams that are no fences at all free ranged, and hardly fed in summer and slighty more through winter on and off except more on n off on really cold spurts this winter (key in all is maybe warm water in cold to keep. layin as heard???), on some layer if shells seemed not as really thick as useful, but otherwise stayed with co op chick feed natural. these kind lay all through and best in winter, med egg each every day. i switched them when ducks had babies after ducklings were two weeks old to dumor again as they have a 20% chick/duck line now at TSC when went for something co op didn't have available at time or something, but still like last time had bad medicine smell and gave nasty smelly runny off colored poops again (not knowing this wasn't normal till now), so swtthed to purina "flock raiser". well they all got cocci bad but got mostly over but still had bad plumage and greasy breaking feathers n hard droppings etc seeming sickly some wobbly n unsteady legs i thought was due to rapid weight gain since it was a natural plant based line said great all breed feed.. so went to TSC again and had gotten some KC ducklings, thinking nothing of much at time except maybe too rich like not known name of feeds tried that were way too rich for games had). Well the woman there warned me that dumor duckling feed was best there for them (though everyone there says co op brands best. lol), but id gotten bulk of flock raiser on deal there before so thought nothing of it.. well found out why and what she kept trying to hint at when went back to complain that the feed had kept causing now bad problems. The free range Americana banties wouldn't eat, as didn't any non penned birds, and penned birds hardly, even brooder KCs. me thinking it was all the nutrition , but was because poisoning them! well after the ducklings in brooder had been stuffing selves with shavings and barfing back up and eating more, necks twisting, legs not working n bowing, someone told me was serious vit and mineral deficiencies.. so called the store armed with vet n breeders statements, n they said wasn't their business if feed wasn't moldy or pest infested. called purina mills n went through hoops being assured this was completely news to them and never happened yet. They said were very curious to look further into matter and wanted to look further and way back into matter, and refund me for problem and loss of birds due to trouble they continued to deny fault to saying they investigated all bag tag info id kept (and still have btw..), and let me know. well nothing back after while, that rep wouldn't take my calls asking about and saying about others having same and worse probs, n then found out was lawsuits paid off, n major recalls. the rep said that purina mills makes yhe lines of dumor too. so using co op cheap natural feeds, n birds are fine except slight trouble from layer calcium sourse too rich again, so mostly just feed chick feed again.,

ALWAYS READ TAGS OF FEED BAGS, N DO NOT GO BY BAG!!! WAS TOLD THIS BY MILLING COMPANIES I CALLED, AND FEED COMPANIES, AS APPARENTLY TWO VARY DIFFERENT BUSINESSES, THAT MILLERS PUT WHAT ACTUALLY IS AND FOR, WHILE COMPANIES PUT WHAT THEY WANT TO BE IN AND FOR OR SOMETHING .. purina all floxk n floxk raiser only for short term rapid weight gain at and up to butchering broiler weight at six weeks. individual private studies show severly bad results in many cases since asked around personally more and called places, even though heard great things from some online sourses, including duck thred here.

 

[subhanalah]

I had a white leghorn hen that started on till bag ran out and feathers were more than halfway in at least i think, on co op chick feed. Then was gotten by fam, as was just feeding her people pet of kinds n different things, dumo chick starter, n they suddenly got horrible greasy split feathers n cocci poops etc until free ranged and they stopped eating mainly. hen then starting to lay at four months old, giving me two to three eggs a day (he's scoff if want, as had to look up too that was possible from commercial factory stock, also known only chook to occurrences of parthenogenesis, among other odd occurrences), one super jumbo or whatever one twice or so bigger than fits in jumo carton, or a jumbo and a small, or three varying sizes usually lay two in morn n one at night or vice versa, and had on the chic feed till was gotten wrong bag and was feeding cheapest scratch grain had, recommended by store.. she free ranged around big fenced yard, and ate out of compost pile getting leftovers n kitchen scraps. never problem woth calcium except really hard to open egg shells membranes andthick whites n rich big almost red yolks. she couldn't take the cold at all though.

had OEGBs n American game breeds mainly, and dutch bantams etc bantams, on mainly crushed ol roy red cheapest bag, as no name brown bag feeds at farm market could hoof to only at time just was seemingly way to rich. all games gave me a med egg a day, in big dog pen area they left at times.

i now have Americana bantams that are no fences at all free ranged, and hardly fed in summer and slighty more through winter on and off except more on n off on really cold spurts this winter (key in all is maybe warm water in cold to keep. layin as heard???), on some layer if shells seemed not as really thick as useful, but otherwise stayed with co op chick feed natural. these kind lay all through and best in winter, med egg each every day. i switched them when ducks had babies after ducklings were two weeks old to dumor again as they have a 20% chick/duck line now at TSC when went for something co op didn't have available at time or something, but still like last time had bad medicine smell and gave nasty smelly runny off colored poops again (not knowing this wasn't normal till now), so swtthed to purina "flock raiser". well they all got cocci bad but got mostly over but still had bad plumage and greasy breaking feathers n hard droppings etc seeming sickly some wobbly n unsteady legs i thought was due to rapid weight gain since it was a natural plant based line said great all breed feed.. so went to TSC again and had gotten some KC ducklings, thinking nothing of much at time except maybe too rich like not known name of feeds tried that were way too rich for games had). Well the woman there warned me that dumor duckling feed was best there for them (though everyone there says co op brands best. lol), but id gotten bulk of flock raiser on deal there before so thought nothing of it.. well found out why and what she kept trying to hint at when went back to complain that the feed had kept causing now bad problems. The free range Americana banties wouldn't eat, as didn't any non penned birds, and penned birds hardly, even brooder KCs. me thinking it was all the nutrition , but was because poisoning them! well after the ducklings in brooder had been stuffing selves with shavings and barfing back up and eating more, necks twisting, legs not working n bowing, someone told me was serious vit and mineral deficiencies.. so called the store armed with vet n breeders statements, n they said wasn't their business if feed wasn't moldy or pest infested. called purina mills n went through hoops being assured this was completely news to them and never happened yet. They said were very curious to look further into matter and wanted to look further and way back into matter, and refund me for problem and loss of birds due to trouble they continued to deny fault to saying they investigated all bag tag info id kept (and still have btw..), and let me know. well nothing back after while, that rep wouldn't take my calls asking about and saying about others having same and worse probs, n then found out was lawsuits paid off, n major recalls. the rep said that purina mills makes yhe lines of dumor too. so using co op cheap natural feeds, n birds are fine except slight trouble from layer calcium sourse too rich again, so mostly just feed chick feed again.,

ALWAYS READ TAGS OF FEED BAGS, N DO NOT GO BY BAG!!! WAS TOLD THIS BY MILLING COMPANIES I CALLED, AND FEED COMPANIES, AS APPARENTLY TWO VARY DIFFERENT BUSINESSES, THAT MILLERS PUT WHAT ACTUALLY IS AND FOR, WHILE COMPANIES PUT WHAT THEY WANT TO BE IN AND FOR OR SOMETHING .. purina all floxk n floxk raiser only for short term rapid weight gain at and up to butchering broiler weight at six weeks. individual private studies show severly bad results in many cases since asked around personally more and called places, even though heard great things from some online sourses, including duck thred here.

okay, so where are these online sources? Individual studies? Are you saying that you asked people questions and they answered you?
I'm really actually very confused by your whole post, it is very hard to follow.
But I do not believe you can come on the forum and make claims like this without some sort of source to back it up?

 

[laughingdog]

And then yes layer depends partly on what kind and what else is in diets, as a lot of other foods nutrilize and/or flush etc calcium from body, as to how toxic it can be to kidneys etc in foul/other poultry, besides every day laying production breeding age after start actually laying. Companies that make n market for Even small scale, thought want of production only goal, setups cheap n fast results least input of total time money effort and space for maximum output, even why production egg layer breeds so much cheaper (hence terms battery hens same as puppy mills, buy cheap sell high, and put as small an effort in between, anything else just a hobby farm and can't compete with allowed factory farms).. they being the very active n high strung etc better by far why layer/egg maker made. most store ones for young commercial replacement type pullets. Them ment to be disgarded when they burn out soon for "optimal laying" said at a year after start of standard laying time of breed at latest. these feeds not ment for overall consideration and or longevity of only production type layer breed hens even. heck most grower etc feeds designed to and for only short growth of fast maturing, short lived broiler or layer breeds, n not for others, such as bantams and heritage (slow growing n long living, or dual purpose breeds really even.

 

[laughingdog]

Forgive me if you don't look around, and assume I'm bonkers, as im not a conspiracy theory guy, no offences ment to those that are, as i don't believe what haven't experienced myself.

"Sure you can trust the government" "just ask any indian" (us feather kind, not dot, just for reference), holds true for most to probly all large businesses. profit of dollars is bottom line, above all else, and although shouldn't be, it is sadly.

For one then.. actually look at tags at feed stores on bottoms of bag. call milling companies. look at consumer reports, FDA information. call companies and ask questions, call back and ask now about possible problems, then call back saying you have a problem and see how you get a different run around now and how you then get run around and calls blocked from asking on your case. maybe look at all those popular media breeders that edorse thes feeds publicly asking about if they get free feed for, paid for, or oddly admitted by some who don't n won't feed to own birds. some of these people are hands off and hardly if e er see let alone ever interact with, or know true info on birds technically own (not to mention a very afeminant tv host of many things he says a lot of conflicted info on, looking up for self actually). I've seen exact same praises of each of company products on this and other sites. what was name of again??? you can look at actual comments and reviews on here even that say their animals were poisoned
also i have the bags and tags still of two after thought not to toss bags, after dumped feed on compost. i have info written down given to me by purina rep and officials, along with a letter or more sent from them (id have to dig out from somewere). even holderhead gives conflicting statements and reviews on different pages, as well as sandhill crane sanctuary, n another large breeder hatchery. i didn't keep bodies of birds in freezer (gf drew a line there). lemme think of what else i forgot.. oh yes the numbers on bags that are on recall code list, but supposedly no reported problems purina says, yet i have the bags feed samples minor as maybe in them. yhanks again for FDA recall etc page, as can call on mon and say about problem. they've been doing with dogfood for long time as when worked for vet we had a lot of those purina one puppy packs sampled out in the black jugs. they were first to use brain heart and something development formula, that was found toxic due to sourses loaded with murcury (I've seen side effects of personally). It was deemed said by our rep who advised us, before outed about, not to use, as company deemed not cost effective to do a total recal of all products out, but just to compensate those who showed up with complaints, and simply change product labeling advertising and take out temp BHE or whatever same trouble keep showing up causin seizures, retardation etc in infants n toddlers.

funny though how you praise something and people blindly agree, but challenge someone to question and investigate that all maybe not right and everyone doesn't have your best interest at heart, and certain people usually same ones get upset over it. i wish i had had more poeple id come across to warn me and give things to look up, instead of after. take it or leave it n wait for your dogs cats chickens n kids to get sick from brand name packed foods before believe it happens (no one knows I'm sure about on off poisoning from alpo etc brands of pet foods, all if look up are owned by purina-mills n by another company name that owns these brands but owned by same corporatiion.

or were you meaning about layer being bad generally, that can also look up easily?

 

[laughingdog]

Dang just noticed how long winded this was.. also though i have gf, fam and friends who though not poultry people, noticed and felt sorry seeing them go down hill, then some perking up with simple vitamins then greatly when feed changed (oddly to cheapest feed).

don't you say you do only seasonal raising then butchering feed lot style farming on here of "them being just animals and no more attached to, than an inanimate object" "and any sick simply break its neck"? didn't you say why bother to try to nurse a sick animal that cannot produce? Sooo..how would you know personal experience either way, subhanalah? You seem to be a die hard commercialist only, though you said starting to warm up to and didn't cull that one male.

edited by staff

 

[GardenFae]

I only have 4 pullets, 2 at 18.5wks and 2 at 15 wks, they don't eat much so bags last us a while. I started my flock on organic chick starter from a small mill (local to my dad, who gave me a bag and a half for free) with grit mixed in for the first few weeks, switched them to Purina FlockRaiser for a grower when the first half bag of starter ran out at 8ish weeks. They eat their food happily, feathers are shiny, they are happy and healthy and at good weights and have had no visible health issues since I got them as chicks. My first girl went into lay this past weekend (earlier than I expected at 18 1/2 weeks) and I went ahead and put out oyster shell for her as one of her early eggs was a soft-shell (three others so far have been small but hard shells and perfect yolks, they look very good). I also started mixing Layena pellets in with the FlockRaiser crumbles this week but am not switching them totally over yet as I wanted to use up the FlockRaiser first. I'm hoping the mix should be ok for them; they are also allowed to free range for a few hours each day (I wish they could have more time but our yard is not fenced so they can only go out under supervision, and I work 40 hrs/wk), so they get grit, grass, and bugs plus kitchen scraps in their diet daily.

So I have an extra bag of starter feed and no plans for more chicks. From what I am reading, if I need to I could use up the (unmedicated) chick starter as food for the hens, as long as they are getting a calcium supplement. Am I understanding that right? Would it be better, if feeding starter to hens, to mix it with their layer pellets or just feed it straight with calcium on the side?

I lean towards "don't worry, the birds will eat what they need", but I don't want to do any accidental harm by providing incorrect nutrition!

 

[subhanalah]

I only have 4 pullets, 2 at 18.5wks and 2 at 15 wks, they don't eat much so bags last us a while. I started my flock on organic chick starter from a small mill (local to my dad, who gave me a bag and a half for free) with grit mixed in for the first few weeks, switched them to Purina FlockRaiser for a grower when the first half bag of starter ran out at 8ish weeks. They eat their food happily, feathers are shiny, they are happy and healthy and at good weights and have had no visible health issues since I got them as chicks. My first girl went into lay this past weekend (earlier than I expected at 18 1/2 weeks) and I went ahead and put out oyster shell for her as one of her early eggs was a soft-shell (three others so far have been small but hard shells and perfect yolks, they look very good). I also started mixing Layena pellets in with the FlockRaiser crumbles this week but am not switching them totally over yet as I wanted to use up the FlockRaiser first. I'm hoping the mix should be ok for them; they are also allowed to free range for a few hours each day (I wish they could have more time but our yard is not fenced so they can only go out under supervision, and I work 40 hrs/wk), so they get grit, grass, and bugs plus kitchen scraps in their diet daily.


So I have an extra bag of starter feed and no plans for more chicks. From what I am reading, if I need to I could use up the (unmedicated) chick starter as food for the hens, as long as they are getting a calcium supplement. Am I understanding that right? Would it be better, if feeding starter to hens, to mix it with their layer pellets or just feed it straight with calcium on the side?


I lean towards "don't worry, the birds will eat what they need", but I don't want to do any accidental harm by providing incorrect nutrition!

I don't feed layer rations at all. I use a starter or grower and offer crushed oyster shell on the side. My chicken's eggshells are thick and smooth.

 

[Springchild]

Just curious, how many peeps have chickens that you know of?  Maybe you can all get together and find a company that will make a shipment to you all, and you can all order it once a month.  I have been praying to Countryside Organics to make it's way up north to New York so I can get together with some peeps and make an order once a month to offset costs. 

Kudos to you pursuing your life with chickens even though it sounds quite challenging to do so!

MB

There are actually quite a few peeps in Sitka who have chickens. Good point! Thanks!

 

[Springchild]

SpringChild - I work at True Value. They should be able to special order you a non-medicated feed as long as the warehouse stocks it. We do it at my store for. O additional cost. My store doesn't carry some of the items I use for my chickens, but almost always I can order it in special. You might ask the employees next time you are in if you have specific types of feed you want. Might be surprised!

I'm going to do just that. I happen to know the guy who orders stock. Now all I have to do is find the feed and give him the stock number. . Thanks!!!