Worming a mixed flock? Need some input...

[blondie34]

Hi there! I've only been raising peafowl for two years now and I've never wormed them but I see a lot of people posting about worming and such..

Is worming absolutely necessary? I'm thinking about doing it but I have a mixed flock.. 6 peafowl, two ducks, and ~20 chickens in a barn with an attached 40'x50' covered run and flight pen. I also have a large waterer in the run, a nipple watering system in the barn, and then a few kiddie pools for the ducks that I catch the birds randomly drinking out of from time to time.

Would I want to put Safeguard in only one of the waterers or would I have to put it in the nipple watering system too?

 

[KsKingBee]

In the 1980's a new honey bee pest emerged called varroa mite. It very nearly wiped out the honey bees in the USA, feral stocks were mostly non-existent and most of the big commercial outfits saw losses in the 90% range. We came very close to losing them altogether, both bees and commercial operators. The big chem companies rushed to find a chemical that would kill the pest and not the bees and they came up with Apistan in a strip form that could be inserted into the hive for a two-week period when there were no honey supers on the hive.

Apistan was 98% effective, meaning that two out of one hundred mites would survive the treatment. Eventually, those resistant mites would breed and became an even bigger problem. Added to that the misuse of the strips also caused even more resistance. Some beekeepers would either forget or not care about proper usage of the drug and leave it on past the prescribed two weeks. The lessening effectiveness of the past date strips would give less than lethal dosing to mites that furthered in the resistance to the drug.

Then another drug was developed, Checkmite, it was supposed to be even stronger and not have the resistance build up that Apistan had. Well, that didn't work out the way they had planned either. Now there are even more drugs to throw into hives in an effort to keep the honey bees alive. Some are benign and some are quite serious, one thing they have in common is a cycle of dependency on honey bees and the risk of those drugs getting into the honey we eat.

Fortunately, for us, nature can and will solve the plight of the honey bee and has been showing us that bees can cope with a certain mite load through survival breeding strategies. It is much akin to peafowl being able to survive with a minor parisite load that only manifests itself when conditions allow it to get out of hand.

 

[Garden Peas]

Since I have the ability to do fecals before and after worming perhaps I do not need to be worried about changing up the med I use? I would think that resistance build up would be more likely with underdosing.

Ummm, well, yes, maybe, not exactly....

Yes, you do have an advantage in doing your own fecals, and it is smart to tailor your worming to what you find. By the way, your home parasitology work is truly, truly impressive and amazing

Yes, you probably still need to be worried about changing up wormer class periodically.

Yes, resistance build up is more likely with underdosing.

But that's not the whole story.

Worming (or similarly, treating bacterial infections with antibiotics) resolves acute issues and restores animals to reasonable health. Few of us would choose to forego the life-saving benefits of either. But even with optimal dosing, sometimes a few, more resistant organisms may survive. They can then flourish and repopulate the host organism with a more-resistant form. As cycles repeat, more and more resistant organisms reproduce and higher doses of the medication are needed for control, until eventually attempts to control with that medication is futile. Under-dosing leaves even more resistant or partially-resistant organisms, and speeds the resistance.

By carefully checking fecals, you are minimizing the opportunity for resistance, but not eliminating it -- some undetected organisms may survive despite fecal exams. The resistant ones are the ones we are worried about here, because they can reproduce more of themselves relative to the numbers of susceptible (able to be killed with the medication) organisms.

When we change wormer class, we improve the odds of knocking out those organisms that may have survived the previous class, slowing the cycle of resistance by eliminating the bad guys via another weapon in the medication arsenal. This means using a medication which attacks the organism through a different biological route. That's why it's important to change "classes" of wormer periodically.

I love your vet

she sounds awesome

 

[casportpony]

Hi there! I've only been raising peafowl for two years now and I've never wormed them but I see a lot of people posting about worming and such.. 

Is worming absolutely necessary? I'm thinking about doing it but I have a mixed flock.. 6 peafowl, two ducks, and ~20 chickens in a barn with an attached 40'x50' covered run and flight pen. I also have a large waterer in the run, a nipple watering system in the barn, and then a few kiddie pools for the ducks that I catch the birds randomly drinking out of from time to time. Would I want to put Safeguard in only one of the waterers or would I have to put it in the nipple watering system too? 

Safeguard is not water soluble, it settles very quickly. Better to deworm orally.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Post #22 edited.

Found this info on oxfendazole:
http://www.vetsfarma.com/poultry3.html

No idea how true any of it is, but it's a start.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

As I understand rotating, it means changing "class" of wormers. All the "zoles" are in the same class, so one would have to use levimasole, pyrantel or something like moxidectin or ivermectin.

-Kathy

 

[zazouse]

I purchase Safeguard for goats suspension10% to worm all my birds here, it cost 425 dollars( 3785ML) in a gallon at Jeffers ........a huge savings compared to the 125 ML bottles for 20 dollars at tractor supply

 

[Garden Peas]

Quote:
I "get" the massive investment in pens & equipment... I can figure that stuff out on paper. But I always UNDER estimate the amount of time and manpower. Stuff always happens so much quicker when I wave my mental magic wand and imagine it done.

Actual build in in real life seems to take longer

Right now, I'm just trying to picture how much time per day it would take to care for either set of these birds -- it's making my head hurt just thinking about it. Much as I love them, I'm definitely daunted at the prospect of caring for that many. My hat's off to both of you.

 

[Pork Pie]

If its possible, I'd suggest selecting the most commonly used source and water and prevent access to all other sources -that way hopefully all your birds should drink the medicated water.

All the best
CT

 

[blondie34]

Safeguard is not water soluble, it settles very quickly. Better to deworm orally.

-Kathy

Orally!? Oh gosh.. I can't imagine that'd be easy.. my peafowl don't particularly enjoy being handled .. how do you keep track of who has already gotten the wormer when you have a lot that look alike?